Little Chapel windows smashed

ONE of the island’s most popular tourist attraction has been vandalised.

ONE of the island’s most popular tourist attraction has been vandalised.

Five stained glass windows in the Little Chapel have been smashed.

A caretaker at Blanchelande Girls’ College discovered the damage the morning after the attack and called police.

Principal Lesley Le Page said she could not understand why somebody had decided to smash the windows, which would cost thousands to repair.

‘They had a real good go at it. The chapel is not near anything and is completely open to the public.

‘It’s a very special spot so when you see mindless vandalism like this, it’s very disappointing,’ she said.

It is not the first time yobs have targeted the attraction.

A spate of vandalism took place over three consecutive weekends in May 2008.

* Police are asking anyone with information to contact them.

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Comments for: "Little Chapel windows smashed"

GG

It's completely disgusting, do these criminals not have any respect?!

charlotte

I am afraid that the Channel Islands is now becoming like England.22 years ago when we first visited,the islands were so different,there didnt appear to be much crime and you could walk anywhere day of night.We came just before Christmas 12 years ago and decided to walk in the Pollet in the early evening and take photo's of the christmas lights.We were threatened by groups of yobs who tried to take my husbands camera and so we went back to our Hotel.We never go out in the dark now in Guernsey unless we have a taxi.Times have changed and not for the better,never a week goes by without a report of crime or an assault or vandalism.Im afraid that some and I do mean some of the younger generation have no respect at all for anything.Where will it end.

Dave Jones

The vandalism of the Little Chapel windows is yet another example of law and order breaking down in Guernsey, As Dep Guille said last week there were 814 reported cases of vandalism in the latest Police report only 100 of them were detected and only a fraction eventually reached court which means 700 of them are outstanding. Recently we have had another act of arson putting at risk the lives of those in the home that caught fire, these cases of arson have gone on for years and I don’t remember seeing many prosecutions for this extremely serious offence.

In many ways we as a government together with previous governments are to blame as it is us who have helped create the problem by removing the insistence that there should be discipline in those who refuse to live by our laws and social codes.

We have created the problem for ourselves, by consistently making excuses for those who carry out these criminal acts, either by trying to pretend that a lack of recreational opportunities, social deprivation or the often used excuse that outright boredom inevitably creates vandals. Absolute rot, if you go back in history you will see that families suffered terrifying levels of poverty and social deprivation throughout the 20’s 30’s without turning out people who spent their time smashing up their communities.

Why? Because they lived in a world that had structure, discipline, order and parental responsibility. They lived in a community that had a legal system that did not accept as a defence that being, poor or drunk or coming from a broken home was sufficient justification for wrecking other people’s property. It was a legal system that had proper deterrents, which punished those who transgressed society’s laws robustly, swiftly and appropriately.

Very much different to what we have today, we have managed though various pieces of ill thought out legislation together with the blind observance of the all-pervasive human rights laws to tear apart that strict legal framework and substitute it for some weak and feeble excuse driven remedies and as a result we have simply lost control. These progressive laws and codes of practice have systematically eroded the rights of parent’s, teachers, the police and everyone else in authority to maintain properly a society that knows where the boundaries are, a society which has managed by design to blur the edges of tolerable behaviour.

Those charged with the responsibility of parental control, education and policing, now work within a system that prevents them from instilling any structured authority or restraint into the lives of people in their formative years where it might make a difference. The sheer lunacy of it all, is that Governments prefer instead to arm our police with CS gas, telescopic batons, 50,000-volt stun guns and firearms to deal with them when they grow up and when they become a much bigger threat to society in later years.

As a result we live in a world where the vandals, thugs and criminals have more rights than those who they attack. Where parents, teachers and anyone else in authority can find themselves before the courts for attempting in any way to restore some old fashioned discipline or sanity back into our lives, all these people should be given medals not prosecuted. There are many parents who have completely given up on trying to control the behaviour of their children, they are fighting a lost cause and finding that the only sanction they have left is to give their children a sharp finger wagging.

Precious little use that is, they know if they attempt to discipline their offspring properly they will get little backing from the state and the youngsters are bright enough to know that by and large they are beyond the law, many of them will have learned all about their rights even before they have learnt the alphabet and will quote chapter and verse to you what those rights are.

Was this ever the democratic wish of the people? I know it was not. Laws that have been imposed on the masses by the hand wringing, blinkered liberal elite who are obsessed with forcing their distorted values of what modern society should look like on the rest of us, regardless of how damaging it is to the fabric and the common welfare of our communities. Good grief every decent parent knows what is needed and millions of youngsters left home in years gone by with the kind of respect and discipline that many of us yearn for today because the State and the hand wringing liberals kept its opinions to itself.

The fact is, there are simply no real deterrents left; even if you can get a case into court these days you will be one of the lucky ones. In fact if you have suffered acts of criminal damage, your chances of getting a case before the Magistrates are pretty slim, unless of course you happen to put up a couple of illegal fence panels that don’t affect anybody, then several sets of horses will be brought to their knees, in the effort to get such heinous crimes before the courts.

As a victim of criminal damage you will be given all kinds of reasons why the vandals were allowed to walk away with a slap on the wrist. One of them I can tell you will be cost or the legal system not wanting to clog up the courts, mostly because of their age, or not wanting to give them a criminal record so young in life. Well I don’t accept either of those reasons, the cost to individuals is often substantial not to mention the community and the taxpayer, it makes the legal costs look small in comparison, I also believe our quality of life also has a price? If they have a criminal record it is because they committed a criminal act, simple really, stop making excuses for it and treat it for what it is.

I appreciate that court time is expensive and these cases can be time consuming, however we will never end this cycle of criminal damage until the courts start to recognise that the present system of deterrents if you can spot what they are, are simply not working. I see from time to time reports that the Police have caught people who have committed acts of criminal damage and I wait along with many others to see these cases come before the courts; unfortunately for the public these court appearances are rare occurrences indeed.

You are more likely to see the perpetrators let off with a Police caution or some sort of so called “restorative justice” that is of course if the accused is willing to agree to it. Even though the Courts have the power to make financial restitution it is very rarely used and if the case doesn’t go to court you have little or no chance of forcing those who caused the damage to pay for it other than through petty debts. We are small enough to be different to other communities, we could if we wanted to, reverse this decline in law and order, we might start by ending the ridiculous situation that puts the rights of petty criminals, vandals, burglars, drunkards, drug addicts and arsonists above the rights of decent people to live in a clean well governed community in safety and security.

Paul

That's all very well and good Mr Jones, but what are you, as an elected member of the States going to do to rectify the situation?

Paul Le Page

Perhaps we need a dose of Rudi Giuliani's "zero tolerance on petty crime" policy that he implemented in New York?

I agree with much of what Deputy Jones writes however I do think that restorative justice is an important part of the justice system - as well as assistance for people who, for whatever reason, have fallen off the wagon.

Surely the point of the justice system should ultimately be crime reduction? I believe this is achieved most effectively by both punishing offenders and seeking to rehabilitate them once justice is served. For example, it's no good punishing a drug addict who steals to fund his habit without at least trying to help them overcome their addiction. If the root cause of the problem is not treated, then the addict will simply re-offend.

Phil

Dave Jones

My my, that was quite some rant!!

Before we get too dewy eyed about the "good old days" let's not forget that some of the sentences handed down were ridiculously disproportionate, and the vulnerable in society were far worse off than they are in today's world.

There is also a fine line between discipline and abuse, I'd suggest that many Jersey children who were in the State's care could vouch for that.

Finally, perhaps when people read about incidents like your good buddy Lyndon threatening to knock someone's teeth out, and then seeing that he avoided any consequences of his actions, they think that if it's good enough for him then it's good enough for us!

Dave Jones

Paul

Deputy Guille, Paint, and I wrote to the minister of Home department several weeks ago on this very subject and I have pursued stronger action on vandalism by the authorities for several years. What is needed in my view is more covert surveillance to catch these people and when we have for the courts to make a real example of them. I will continue with other deputies to reflect the publics view on this for more action.

Paul Le Page

Phil is absolutely correct - we shouldn't get too sentimental about the good old days. I wouldn't want to live in a society ruled by fear where the heavy hand of the law is not balanced by the equally strong hand of mercy. That would be no better a society than the ultra-liberal mess we have found ourselves in.

With a bit of thought though, we can have a balanced justice system:

- where punishment for crime is severe enough to act as a deterrant whilst remaining proportionate to the offence. For example, the case of the "Isolation" vandal - he should have been made to clean up every one of his masterpieces.

- one where we attempt to break the cycle of crime by addressing the root causes (e.g. addictions, parental responsibility, poverty, social injustice) as well as effectively seeking to rehabilitate ex-offenders back into society by providing assistance with housing, work, relationships.

Dave Jones

Phil is that the best you can do? I am not sure that an alleged incident in a corridor has much to do with tackling the chronic vandalism problem we have in this island. As for children in care, I spent my whole childhood in care and it was pretty wretched existence I can tell you, so please don’t lecture me about care homes in Jersey or anywhere else and that does not change my views on the breakdown of structure and discipline in our society.

Shaun Petit

How can the law be balanced by putting up with this behavior? The perpertrators should be punished!Well said Dave Jones.

blah

bring back the birch!! in the good old days your old man would smack you with a chair leg and then you knew where you were and no mistake!! ... and thus it passed down from generation to generation and here we are - with 10 yr olds killing toddlers. me thinks dep jones' extraordinary reductionistic approach (to this matter and most others)demonstrates both his populist and profoundly simplistic thinking. more chips than beetons. lynch the boy venables anyone? wait for me deputies!! the daily mail is long and strong enough to hang em all with. Throw in the ISOLATION lad as well P Le P - dirty graffitti boy with his very polite and tidily stencilled, excellent, excellent one word comment on how it is for so many among the loud and rich and confident. I'm very pleased to see there are still a few ISOLATIONS left if you look (people do look, waiting alone in their car queues) ... those who bust the window were probaby drunk - like they were 100 yrs ago. look to the tax evaders dep jones 'cause they destroy our society from the invisible inside out and prevent anything like a fair delancey playing field - a community PC will not be enough.

Phil

Dave Jones

Firstly, the incident was genuine, which I am sure you know. I imagine you also know the reason why Barry dropped the issue, so please don't try to make out that the threat didn't take place. The reason I pointed it out is that if people see our Chief Minister threatening someone and then not suffer any consequences of that action, why should they think that smashing a toilet window will lead to serious punishment?

Secondly, I wasn't lecturing you about children in care, I was pointing out that where an environment exists whereby physical violence is accepted as a form of punishment, it is all too easy for that violence to become abusive.

I don't expect you to take these views on board at all, you are well known for your reluctance to accept any other views than your own. By the way, should this "zero tolerance" policy of bad behaviour also extend to foul language? I understand from a very good friend of mine at Frossard House that the air is often blue in your vicinity???

Dave Jones

Phil

I don’t know if it was true or not, nor do I know the details of it because I wasn’t there, you must have been as you can give us chapter and verse of what happened. Maybe you are Barry? I have no idea.

Phil

Dave Jones

I have spoken to Barry personally on the matter, so unless he was lying to me (which I am as sure as I can be that he wasn't) then the incident did indeed occur.

Do you have a view on the use of foul language as mentioned in my previous post?

One thing I do agree with you on is the very last sentence of your post. Had it also been the first sentence I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

Phil

Dave Jones

Having looked through archived reports for 5 minutes it seems they would confirm the incident, indeed Lyndon himself acknowledges it.

And you seriously expect me to believe you know nothing about it? So you have neither read the reports nor discussed the issue with colleagues?

You presumably believe that I (and indeed the public in general) came down with yesterday's rain?

EH!

PHIL - I don't think the Lyndon Trott v Barry Brehaut argument is releavant to youths being disrespectful and causing criminal damage. Most youths don't even know who Lyndon is. If the Chief Minister actually went through with his threat then you would have something to moan about, afterall we have all said things in the heat of the moment and not really meant it. I also don't think you can compare swearing with criminal damage.

bcb

EH

I think it is releavant in as far as he GOT AWAY with it after a few little political manouvers.

If that had beed the head teacher of a school talking to one of their staff in that manner or a doctor, or even the boss of a company, what do you think the outcome would have been?.

Dave Jones

Phil

You can always tell when someone has lost the ability to connect, when they resort to personal insults. First of all what I said was I was not there so I have no idea what took place .I have never said that I knew nothing about it. I said I did not know the details of it.

I have heard several versions of the same incident but as I wasn’t present when it took place I will make up my own mind what to believe. I have not read a single report on this issue as I am not aware there is a report. Yes I do have a view on foul language but then I have a view on lots of things which is what really seems to annoy you.

Phil

Dave Jones

My apologies if my very low level insult offended you, I'd forgotten that Guernsey politicians are all made of sugar and spice and all things nice, and are upset by the smallest thing.

Good job the staff at housing aren't so easily upset by foul language isn't it?

DanLobster

Is Deputy Dave Jones implying that there was no crime or vandalism during the great depression?

It is plain to anyone with any realistic view of the world that that throughout history there have always been vandals society, and I suspect there always will be.

I find his call for 'more covert surveillance' a little worrying but depressingly unsurprising. The enemies of freedom will always play upon peoples’ inherent fear of apparently ever rising crime rates to gradually erode our civil liberties.

Some little scrotes deicide to smash a church window and it's another point scored for the politics of fear.

Politicians, pah.

EH!

bcb - Got away with what? Saying something in the heat of the moment?!

Phil - Are you saying you never swear in the work place?

DanLobster - How do you suggest the States deal with this kind of vandalism?

bella

you reap what you sow, guernsey shipped in all these so called experts, who had left the u.k. in a mess. and the powers to be followed there every suggestion.dave jones i do not agree with many things you come up with, but you are spot on.you need to have been through a bad time to understand the cure, not some soft touch who hasnt got a clue about the real world

DanLobster

@EH!

I'm not suggesting the states soften their approach or that vandals should be in anyway excused.

I was having a pop at Dave Jones rose tinted nostalgic view of pre war society and his alarmist politics.

PS - The fact that politicians feel the need to air their sordid little squabbles on a public news forum only cements my views on politicians and politics in general.

D_T

Send them to boot camp

Phil

EH!

Deputy Trott got away with threatening a colleague, if I did that I'd be summarily dismissed (as would most people working in the finance industry I'd imagine).

I do occasionally swear in the workplace, however not as much as Deputy Jones (according to a senior member of Housing's staff). A key point to remember though is that I don't advocate a zero tolerance attitude to petty offending, whereas Deputy Jones would love the stick to be wielded ever more enthusiastically. Although not when it comes to the anti-social behaviour of himself or his colleagues it appears. Quelle surprise.....

Paul Le Page

Phil – I think the whole issue with Trott v Brehaut has been blown out of all proportion. People have threatened to perform various acts of plastic-free plastic surgery on me before but I’m still here in one piece. In the heat of the moment I've threatened to do all sorts of things too, but I can count the amount of fights I've had on one hand.

Most of the time it’s macho bravado and “tough talk” and mature people are able to dismiss it as something that happens when tempers fray in a high-pressure environment - a bit of letting off steam. Although there are more mature ways to handle emotion, at least it shows some of our politicians have passion.

John

@ DAVE JONES

Why is an elected member of the States spending so much time on this website when he should be governing the Island.

What a waste of taxpayers money.

You will not be getting my vote next time. Get on with your job.

Phil

Paul

With respect, what you have just said is complete rubbish. I can assure you that if I made a threat towards a colleague to knock their teeth out I would expect to be summarily dismissed. Most finance industry work contracts would provide for this as one of the few reasons for summary dismissal, and quite understandably so as you can't have people in the workplace behaving in this way.

I have had plenty of business meetings where disputes have occured and tempers have been tested, not once have I heard personal threats being made.

By the way, if I happen to make a similar comment on a Friday night and I'm overheard by a policeman, what do you think the likely result would be?

bcb

EH

you ask the question "got away with what"

well he got away with what is a crimnal offence thats what. Again what would have been the result if this was in any other work place?.

Paul Le Page

You tend to write the most reasoned comments on here, but on this i think you are wide of the mark.

Swearing in conversation or in passing remarks is one thing but threatening to punch someone is quite another.

Paul Le Page

Phil - you seemed to have missed the point somewhat, perhaps I didn't explain myself too well.

The point I was trying to make is that it's not always as black and white as we like to think. Only Deputies Brehaut & Trott know whether their little spat of handbags was nothing more than a bit of over-the-top sabre-rattling or a potentially violent situation.

On the subject of employment contracts, I agree the majority of finance industry contracts (most employment contracts actually) have such a clause - and rightly so. Bullying, intimidation and violence should never be tolerated in the workplace. If I'm not mistaken however, such a clause would only be activated if an incident was reported. Why is this relevant? Because often the people involved don't see fit to escalate the matter as they have applied some common sense to the situation and come to the conclusion that there was no real threat intended. Of course that is a matter for their own discretion and when threatening behaviour is genuinely threatening then swift action should be taken.

Paul Le Page

bcb - thanks for the compliment - I'm not sure everyone here will agree with you though! ;-)

I certainly don't claim to be right all the time but I've tried to reason my point a bit better above. Of course if that doesn't work it's highly likely I am wide of the mark on this occasion....it won't be the first time.

Bart

@ John| March 10, 2010 at 2:24 pm

I completely disagree; this is a great venue for the general public to air their views and for deputies to respond. More deputies should write on these forums. Congratulations to the like of Dave Jones and Matt Fallaize for having the courage in their conviction to say what they are thinking! (Even if it isn’t always correct)

Paul Le Page

Hear Hear Bart!

How many times do we hear people complaining that their Deputies are out of touch with the electorate; yet here they are getting stuck into debate with us and they're criticised! Unbelievable.....

Dave Jones

John

I spend very little time on here, my working days start very early and often end very late, mostly seven days a week. if you think engaging with the public, even my critics is a waste of taxpayers money then you don’t know much about what it takes to be a peoples deputy.

Bart

both Matt and I are gratful for your support.

Paul Le Page

Dave Jones - You really have no need to justify yourself on this occasion. Those who understand even a modicum of democratic politics value the interaction with our elected representatives.

In the words of KC & the Sunshine Band - "Please don't go" :-)

Phil

Paul

I have spoken to Barry Brehaut personally about this incident, and he certainly didn't consider it to be a "handbags" incident. I can't go into too much detail because the conversation I had with him was private, however suffice to say he was asked not to pursue the matter as to do so would have been hugely problematic for the States.

Deputy Trott's behaviour towards Barry Brehaut was entirely in keeping with the type of person he is, which is unfortunate because sooner or later this will manifest itself in a damaging way to Guernsey, just how serious this will be remains to be seen.

John

@ Dave Jones

I am sure you do work hard. The majority of us do. You choose to work 7 days a week so don't try to be a martyr.

If you spent less time on websites maybe you would not have to work so hard or could put your time to better use.

The Guernsey political scene is a joke. Look at the mess you have all made over waste disposal. Spending millions on research and then doing nothing about it.

Look at the mess you have all made over tax. We are currently in limbo over the tax situation whilst other jurisdictions stand by and laugh at us. No doubt the States have now employed an army of expensive tax consultants to advise them what to do on tax and another army of PR people on how to spin the outcome.

As for the vandals who broke the Little Chapel windows no doubt, if caught, they will be treated with kid gloves incase we encraoch on their human rights!!! Give me a break. Fine them or their parents really heavilly on top of them paying for the repairs.

Make decisions and stand by them.

Bart

@ John, perhaps you will consider running for deputy then at the next election?

bcb

John

Just be honest mate, that was nothing more than an excuse to have a dig and a very poor one at that.

I think you`ll find most of us like to read the posts of deputies on here, so who are you to try and tell them to stop?.

And the majority of us dont work 7 days a week, so dont talk rubbish.

Maybe your not doing your job properly going by what you say?.

Dave Jones

John

I have been opposed to incineration from the day I entered the States 10 years ago and my vote on has stayed consistent throughout every debate we have had on the subject. I made my decision and I have stood by it.

It is true the States as a whole have not covered themselves in glory on this particular topic, however you also have to remember that two years ago we had an election which resulted in a substantial influx of new members to the assembly who had different ideas to those who had left the States and they wanted a different outcome, although I grant you we went an odd way round in order to achieve it. I would much rather have the democratic right of members to change their mind on a subject than I would have some elected dictatorship that would decide the outcome of every debate behind closed doors. The public also have full access to their elected representatives day and night and weekends are just like any other day people don’t stop calling because it’s a weekend and anybody who becomes a deputy has to live with it as part of the job, so from that perspective I suppose I did choose it.

As for tax we are in exactly the same position as our competitors who have also not yet decided what if any the new rate of corporation tax will be. The islands finances compared with almost everywhere else are in good shape and the last T&R report makes very encouraging reading. As for those jurisdictions laughing at us I think you will find that on several levels they envy us. We don’t have VAT or GST and we have much lower taxes and charges than many of our competing jurisdictions.

The problem with vandals at the Little Chapel, John I suggest you read my original post on this thread and you will see our views on this matter are not that far apart.

kevin

just read Dave Jones's megalong post.Seems to me that he should use his influence to try and make the police give this criminal damage offence more priority.Perhaps a little less hiding in gateways and then jumping out with a speed gun (watched by three other officers) by guernsey's finest might help. My experience of the legal system is somewhat different to his.Some years ago my son committed criminal damage by smashing a window in town whilst drunk. Rightly he was prosecuted. The police couldn't prove anything, the case only went to court because he admitted what he had done,paid for the damage, apologized to the owner for the damage and got repairs done straight away. In court he was fined £1200 pounds this was his first and only offence. I don't think he was let off easily.Dave Jones should really get to work ,gain support in the states and force the police and legal system to prioritize this offence. We have a £17,000,000 court house lets use it. Don't just talk about it Deputy Jones do something about it!

Truth Man

Bart and Dave Jones:

Slightly off topic I know, but hey ho!:

I did feel unhappy at the amount of time Dave Jones spends on this website. However, Bart raised a very valid point, and it caused me to reflect. I would absolutely agree that more deputies should write on these forums, however I believe Deputies should use this time to learn what the public want and need, and then respond with what they are going to do to address the electorate's feelings on a subject. I think Dave Jones falls down because his posts tend to preach to us about his views, and if we don't fall in line, then we are in the wrong.

So my (revised) opinion is this: Dave, carry on posting - it is nice to know you are reading. But please, use this opportunity to learn about your electorate. In other words, do more listening and spend less time 'telling'.

blah

paul le page one of the most reasoned posters someone said above i think !!?? good grief. there is virtually no half-decent reasoning on this site. there is a huge amount of reactionary nonsense and trivia. very little big picture or objectivity. lets have passion yes but that aint hysteria. and I am sorry to say old paul is seemingly a most reasonable sweetie but without doubt the most boring in my eye. as for mindless vandals - comprop anyone? banksi et al get down there to dilbert park and do your stuff.

blah

as i write, 41 posts exist about broken windows at the poxy little chapel (it really is one of umpteen elephants in the Guernsey room - only the rural setting prevents most coach parties from asking for their money back). the damage is inconvenient, no more. another 9 posts about the vale church confessor - more inconvenience, absolutely no evil. but only 21 odd for the nipper who got his nose broken at school. why? cos violence against working class people aways comes second to damage to property. why? cos the law makers have always belonged to the ruling and middle classes and they have the most property, whereas most victims of violence do not, and have not.

Paul Le Page

Cheers blah - "a most reasonable sweetie" - I've been called a lot of things in my young life (I'm in my mid thirties mate!) but never a reasonable sweetie! Still thanks for the feedback.

Note to self...."old paul" must try harder to entertain blah.

Guern abroad

This was sad news about yet more meaningless vandalism.

Personally I think this sucks, and when I read about toilet damage too. I used Crown pier and someone had put their leftover lunch packaing in the toilet bowl, they are obviousy with money to have bought the preprepared food yet had no consideraiton with that to do with the leftovers!

Install CCTV and sod the privacy, install a camera on the entrants and sound recording for inside the facilities where they are a toilet (to keep the human rights people quiet). Tie the camera footage with the noise of vandalism, and with the evidence, chase it down and do something about it.

Being bored is not an excuse to be disrespectful of what is not yours.

I agree with what Deptuty Jones wrote in essence. There is no framework now to support discpline for those where the faimly background is/has failed.

Dave Jones

Truth Man

Yours is an odd post, according to you when I give my views I am “preaching” while everyone else is just giving their views. I think I am one of the deputies who does listen to the views of others and sometimes I agree and on other occasions I don’t and in that regard I am no different to lots of other Deputies, the only difference is I am honest enough to do it on sites like this one.

A.J.

Well said Dave.Keep up the good work.You will get my vote ( but unfortunately only if we have Island wide voting) No man is right all of the time, allthough many of the writers on this forum seem to think so.You, Graham Guille and Mary Lowe are some of the few who seem to have coomon sense and anyreal feeling for this Island of ours.

Truth Man

Dave Jones:

Mine is an odd post is it? Well that's me told then. I guess I can rest my case.

Truth Man

Dave Jones:

I am going to follow up on my last sarcastic post, and I apologise for going down that line.

I understand that you are stating your views on these posts, however can you not see that in the context of my point you cannot compare yourself in your elected role to posters such as me who just like to be able to have our say on forums such as these. Your remit is to respond to your electorate. That is my point. Therefore rather than stating so many opinions on these forums perhaps sometimes you could appear humble, and take something away from the views stated.

Of course, I am being very presumptuous and it may well be that you do take learning away from these threads - it just doesn't appear so from what you say on here.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I am just telling you how you come across, to me.

Dave Jones

AJ

I thank you for your considerate comments; I wish more Deputies would engage with those on this kind of forum. Many tell me that they will not engage with people who use pseudonyms or single names. I think that is less important than what people have to say; of course you will sometimes get extreme views. Deputies occasionally hold opinions what might be considered by some as extreme also. What is important is that all of us discuss the topics of the day, it is by discussion and dialog that understanding of the diverse positions we sometimes can prevent conflict and distrust. I think that is hugely important in a small close knit community such as ours.

Dave Jones

Truth Man

I will take on board your comments.

Merlin

Dave, the reason why some use pseudonyms is because we work in the public sector and are not allowed to voice personal views! These forums allow us to have our say without fear of reprisals i.e lose our jobs.

If more politicians actually read these forums they might get an idea of what the public are thinking about various topics. There is always the argument that we could telephone or write letters - but again the arguments above will prevent public sector workers. Of course there will always be mischief makers using pseudonyms to hide behind but they could be anyone - including politicians!

There is no excuse for abuse and this site is well moderated to prevent that.

Keep up the good work Dave - I don't always agree with you but cannot fault you on your passion to remain connected with what is going on in the island and to hear all sides of the story.

Re: the criminal damage to the little chapel - it has to be taken seriously by the police - we have to stop mindless vandalism and punish those commit it - before crime becomes much more serious.

Paul Le Page

Dave Jones - good post March 14 9.47am

It's interesting that some Deputies raise the issue of posters using pseudonyms or single names. Like you I actually don't think it matters that much in this context, what matters is that there is a dialogue going on.

I'm really not that bothered if somebody wants to hide behind a pseudonym and abuse me from the comfort of their keyboard - it certainly doesn't put me off posting! I can't believe it would bother our Deputies too much either.

Irrespective of whether someone writes under their own name or a nom-de-guerre, I'm sure you would agree that it's pretty easy to work out those who want to engage in serious (and sometimes humourous) dialogue on these forums and those who are nothing more than wind-up merchants.

Besides, even with the "Gravatar" identification it would be dead easy to fake an identity if someone really wanted to. You can never be 100% certain whether the name attached to the post is the real identity of the author.