Cour du Parc to be handed over to GHA

COUR du Parc, the island’s only tower block, will be refurbished and revamped in a deal that will see the States hand it over to the Guernsey Housing Association.

Work should start late next summer on revamping Cour du Parc, Charroterie, St Peter Port, with a projected 12- to 18-month construction period
Work should start late next summer on revamping Cour du Parc, Charroterie, St Peter Port, with a projected 12- to 18-month construction period

COUR du Parc, the island’s only tower block, will be refurbished and revamped in a deal that will see the States hand it over to the Guernsey Housing Association.

Housing minister Dave Jones told the States today that the option of refurbishment was about £3m. cheaper than buying land and developing replacement housing for the 40-plus flats elsewhere.

Three options remain for its future use.

The redesigned flats will provide one- and two-bedroom accommodation either for single people or couples on the GHA’s waiting list, or for States employees or a mixture of these.

Comments for: "Cour du Parc to be handed over to GHA"

John

Yer Dave, Glad your not knocking it down. Where did you get your figures from though. Surely a plot to build 40 flats would cost £3m alone. Therefore are you saying that it will cost exactly the same to renovate these as to build 40 brand spanking new ones.

Another thing that crossed my mind is why did you knock down the Bouet Estate rather than selling them off cheap to first time buyers who would have regenerated the area naturally.

It's starting to look like social housing gone mad.

Dave Jones

We needed the land ,if you sell the houses off you then have to find even more sites to build more housing and in any event we have gone with the Partial,owenship scheme as a way of helping first time buyers.

John

We needed the Land? Strange reply! You knock down 100 houses to build 101 houses? You spent £ms! Did you read what I originally said?

bcb

And who decides which first time buyers get their hands on these cheap properties? that sounds really fair doesn`t it? not.

I bet those that don`t manage to get hold of one won`t feel at all hard done by will they? and not to mention the youngsters who will also want "cheap" houses in the future. Maybe the those lucky enough to get their cheap houses could sell them on at a reduced rate to the other first time buyers who are struggling? and pigs might fly.

Phil

Dave

Are you able to tell us what the refurbishment cost is? I assume you are as to make the judgement thatit's £3m cheaper than building from scratch you must have had all the figures.

Dave Jones

Phil

We know pretty much what it costs to build 40 odd houses on a site so the calculations were based on that compared to refurbishing an existing building and all the evidence shows that this project will be approximately 3 million cheaper than new build.

For instance we won't have to put in any road network as you would on a housing site which is hugely expensive , we will also not have to do major drainage work on CdP as you would on a new housing development . There are other smaller costs that won't apply such as landscaping, laying all new water mains and electric cables all of which C d P already has.

The flats are already there and the building is structuly sound so compared to starting from scratch we are confident that the differentials are right.

I don't have any detailed breakdown of the refurbishment costs as that work has not yet gone out to tender to interested companies.

Matt T

Dave,

It all sounds logical and I'm glad to see the site going to good use. however can you tell us where the residents are going to park? Being a nearby resident, i'm a little concerned about a potential extra (worst case) 80+ cars that need to be parked. The area can barely cope as it is. Is there any on-site parking at CdP?

John

Who on earth is going to quote £3m now that you have told them it's a £5m job

kat

This might be but there is still 40 homes with not a lot of parking?

It is said these homes will be for older tenants who do not have young children

it might surprise you but many of us with no small children now look after small grandchildren!

If these places are for those with older children then there will need to be even more parking spaces .

such a shame this hideous building was not knocked down and a multi car park put there to serves ALl this side of town

Unless there are plans to build more parking with in the valley of Frossard House.

St Marcouf

This ugly building could be made to look much prettier if its windows were changed to a more traditional style and a high steeped roof were put on top of it to make it look like a chateau - eg somewhat like Chateau Frontenac in Quebec City, a hotel. I've seen a water tower dressed up in a similar way in France, it's very effective and clever.

markB

Deputy Dave Jones

Tonight on Channel TV they said that Cour du Parc is being re-developed for States workers.

"full stop" Could you explain what CTV mean by this. As you have said its for people on the GHA'S waiting list, couples etc ect.. Who are these States workers? and will they get priority over pople on the said waiting list?

Dave Jones

Housing has said nothing of the kind,

The property is being refurbished for couples without children,single people and some health staff from the PEH.

the prorites will be a matter for the GHA and it is my understanding that the majority of there flats will be occupied by people on the GHA's waiting list what the exact final mix will be i cannot say at this stage.

Steven

Dave, consider hiring a small team of tradesman and have them teach suitable young guernseymen, school leavers and unemployed. I'm sure it could be a win win solution. Especially if there are suitable unemployed people on the housing list.

Dave Jones

Stephen

That will be a personel matter for whoever is awarded the contract and the GHA.

Guern abroad

Interesting thoughts John.

I do think it is a good idea to regenerate this block of flats and I like the comment below about design opportunities.

I never did quite get why so much of the Bouet was knocked down rather then a restorative programme undertaken.

John

Yer, The boys have just told me I am behind the times. A plot is not a plot, for 40 Flats, its a Site. They recon a site for 40 flats is worth £5m. Shows you how long I have been away. They recon to demolish CdP would cost 5 times what the site is worth. Wer not thick out West. My mate said 40flats x cheap as chips £500 month = £20,000 per month and Dave wants to get rid of it. The boys at Perelle would put in a better offer if we can get some Sort of Insurance.

Zab

Good 40 units of desperately needed accomodation, what is not said is the GHA criteria is different to Housing and when Dave Jones says States Employees in this insrance he means Licence holders even though Housings waiting list is still there. The local people get shafted yet again.

Dave Jones

Zab

Local people also reside in HSSD accommodation. Also nurses living in HSSD accommodation don't need licences.

Zab

Does that apply to the local market houses HSSD lease?

Dave Jones

It applies to any HSSD staff acomodation.

Zab

Does the ability to circumvent the licence system apply to all States departments staff accomodation?

Labour Force

Keep it cheaper still and use Labour Force for the strip out, we use local labour.

Labour Force

Only £12 an hour on day work at the mo or we can give prices on strip outs, site clearances and demolitions.

http://labourforcegsy.co.uk/

Errrmmm

Oh Ross. Do you ever stop pimping. LOL

Labour Force

You dont get if you dont ask and why not give the dirty part of the job to a firm that conciously employs locals that will give a reasonable price? You cant berrate someone for trying to keep men in work...

Keith

I read this as £3m IS the cost of refurbishment, ie. less than building new flats somewhere.

There's a typo somewhere up there.

Sugared Brazil Nut

The other GP article on this reports an estimated cost of £5M for the refurb. To build 40 new units would probably be in the region of £7.5 to £8M [depending on amount of infrastructure / external works needed] so the £3M Dave Jones talks about here looks pretty much on the button.

Dave Jones

No Keith

What we have said is that is approx 3m cheaper to refurbish this block than build 45 homes an another site.

John

Yer, Dave, Go back to the first post and answer the question. The Boys have made it quite clear that a site alone would cost you £5m. That was when you were talking 40 odd flats. They now know 40 odd means 45.

Another thing that springs to mind is. Whilst you are merrily giving away Guernsey assets to( not for profit )GHA. Have you got them nailed down properly.

Some other wise man gave Telecoms away and you are all being screwed now.

Dave Jones

The sites cost us nothing as the states already own them .All the redevelopment for new social housing has been done on brown field sites in our ownership, with the exception of the old bus garage site which was purchased by the GHA and the Clos Barbie in St Martins.

It is possible we could get 45 flats out of this refurbished bloc, there is 42 there now so deviding some of the flats into singles could produce two or three more.

We are not giving away anything, all the sites passed on to the GHA can only ever be used for social housing or partial ownership, all these properties can never be sold without permission of Housing & T & R and under the framework agreement would see all the properties and land revert back into the ownership of the States should the GHA cease to function.

We also have the majority of allocations so we get the best of all worlds, with the GHA bearing most of the development costs and no future maintaence bills for the taxpayer.

Ray

Forty units of accommodation on a footprint which would normally allow a couple of small bungalows in an island which lacks building space

Makes you think doesn't it?

Doesn't it?

John

Were is Dave now?

Dave Jones

I will respond when I am ready John

John

Still waiting for response? Dave

Scarlett

I think this is a great idea, however, I would still like to know where all these people are going to park.

Dave....?

Matt T

Scarlett, I think we can guess what the answer will be...

Scarlett

humor me, Matt, where do you think?

Surely they're not considering trying to cram them all into the very limited on street parking the existing residents of that area use.....?!

Dave Jones

Scarlett

We do accept parking will be an issue, but that has always been the case. The GHA are looking at what other parking options might be available. I believe there are about 20 spaces around the building but clearly there will need to be more.

Dave

The road next door to these flats is a private road which is owned by charroterie mills flats. Cour de Parc have no access rights so no access to the rear of Cour de Parc this leaves about 6-8 spaces at the front.

Ray

Interesting to see that Dave Jones managed to tear himself away from a States debate at 11.02am on Friday 2 November to join in on TIG

Dave Jones

Ray

You raise a perfectly valid point.

Three things, we do go for coffee in the member’s room now and then and also I listened and participated in the debate and voted accordingly, thirdly answering questions during the day on issues that effect my department saves valuable time in the evening.

I might also add that we had a joint meeting between Housing & Environment over the lunch period, so no lunch break either.

By the way I sent my government I Pad back to IT and bought my own, in order that I can configure it as I want it without the restrictions of the States IT department which I think makes it much easier to use, at least that is what I find.

States House

You do realise that private houses on the market are sold whithout parking?

Some people might have to look at their priorities and ask themselves "whats more important, a roof over our heads, or a car?"

I cant believe that anyone would be picky enough to complain about taking one of these flats which will be done to a high standard just because it means they wont be able to park a car. Its a small concession to have somewhere to live.

Im sure those families in St Martins hotel wouldnt grumble if given one of these flats but told no parking. Owning a car and having somewhere to park it is a privalige in Guernsey, not a right.

Scarlett

Of course a house is more important than a car, States, you've completely missed my point...

This isn't 'one house' we're talking here, it's 40 plus, all in one very restricted area, and I am speaking from the perspective of the existing residents/businesses of the area, and how logistically, additional cars requiring parking an an area with already limited parking and a lot of cars is going to impact on everyone, not just the flat's tenants (who most certainly I am sure will be grateful for a roof over their heads, regardless).

I would hope that the GHA would make provisions to minimise this potential problem in the planning stages of this project, rather than do so after the event, and as it is the GHA and not a States run project, perhaps this foresight and logic will actually be employed in this case, rather than blithely over looked and only considered when Mad Max type scenarios involving stressed out drivers with no where to park start occurring

States House

Ok, how many more flats will there be?

They all parked there before did they not?

I think I now understand the problem. Those who bought property in this area who bought without any parking are worrying they will have to fight over parking with new residents. Dont moan at the GHA just because you buy cars with no where to park them and live out of your means.

Scarlett

States, some people who live in the area (not myself) have reportedly, REPORTEDLY, expressed concerns about parking for what will be a potentially large amount of extra vehicles in their area, and I think they have a very logical and reasonable point.

We don't know how people are concerned, but what we have been told is that those who commented thus did so in fairly moderate, rational terms, with absolutely no sense of entitlement regarding their parking situation.

What they ARE entitled to do is to comment on a situation that may affect them, and they are more than likely far more qualified than you are to make those observations, based on their personal experience of the daily parking trials and tribulations in that particular part of town.

I've seen you argue far more vehemently and express your views in far stronger terms regarding other subjects that are close to your heart, States, so, please, tell me, why are YOU allowed to express your views, whilst they are not, exactly...?

You're making yourself look deliberately obtuse now, and bearing in mind you completely misunderstood my first remark, argued with that, and now I have explained further, are continuing to argue, you appear to be arguing the toss just for the sake of it....

has Spartacus been giving you lessons, by any chance?

States House

I just cant understand why anyone is complaining about the flats being occupied again and the parking getting worse. When the flats were occupied there would have been the same amount of cars in the area surely? To say now that the parking is going to be a big problem, well those flats have been there how long? They managed before. Those who are concerened have obviously just moved to the area or bought one too many cars because everyone managed before.

Scarlett

well, States, maybe there was a parking problem last time the flats were occupied, and understandably, the nearby residents don't really relish the thought of it happening again.

I stress, these comments by 'concerned residents' were REPORTED in the media. It may have come from one person, maybe fifty, but nevertheless, IMO, it is a valid point, and one that I hope the GHA has the foresight to address.

Stiletto

I am for Dave Jones and Housing, so am pleased to see that Cour Du Parc will again house people who need to be.

As for those posters who continue to dribble on about parking measures and pressures, get over it dears, here it is a way of life - I have it on top authority that a brisk daily walk counts to one of our 5 a day alternative measures towards a healthy lifestyle.

I don't think Dave Jones has parking outside his home.

Dave Jones

Stilleto

Thank you for your support, I do have on street parking outside my house but when we got the place we knew it had no parking attached.

Peter

Good one Dave. At last a Deputy talking sense. Watch out slum landlords a sensible Deputy has seen the light.

Guern abroad

Parking being an issue if it were may just stop the huge reliance on so many cars for so few people.

Generally people live in towns so they can live without a car. In Guernsey this is probably easy to achieve as everything you need which is essential is in walking distance.

Walk, Use the bus and lastly if you need to use a car.

glow ex guern

I have read all the above, and i cannot understand all your problems . Take what you are given and be thankful. some of us would love to come back to the island but because we live in england we have no hope of getting accomodation . (both my son and i are locals) and to be offered accomodation (whether or not a car would be great).