UK's tax demand 'does not create level playing field'

MORE talks will take place with the UK over its plans to demand greater tax transparency from Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

Guernsey's chief minister Peter Harwood with Jersey Chief Misister Ian Gorst. They have issued a joint statement confirming that talks took place erlier this week with HM Treasury on the subject of tax transparency
Guernsey's chief minister Peter Harwood with Jersey Chief Misister Ian Gorst. They have issued a joint statement confirming that talks took place erlier this week with HM Treasury on the subject of tax transparency

MORE talks will take place with the UK over its plans to demand greater tax transparency from Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

HM Treasury wants the Crown Dependencies to introduce a similar agreement to the one the islands are working on with the US – it would mean that account details of UK citizens would be automatically shared with the UK tax authorities.

Urgent talks took place between UK and Crown Dependencies officials on Wednesday.

It is understood the islands are unhappy with the proposals because they would create a non-level playing field as other jurisdictions were not targeted.

Comments for: "UK's tax demand 'does not create level playing field'"

Fermain

If the UK government blocks the Crown Dependencies from developing legitimate international agreements for its own political ends, then perhaps the Crown Dependencies should apply for inclusion on the UN list of Non-self governing territories. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Decolonization

Once officially recognised by the UN as a UK colonial possession the UK governement would be less heavy handed with us for fear of being labelled the colonial bully by the UN. This probably explains why the overseas territories are not part of this UK initiative (they are already on that list). As things stand they can punch away at us within their "domestic" arena.

PLP

Laurel and Hardy!

Peter

Yes I see the similarity. LoL

Backchat

Waste of money as we will comply with whatever they tell us to do anyway

Scarlett

Didn't those two get the memo?

Life isn't fair, and when it comes to business, fairness has nothing to do with it.

Ray

I suppose those are exactly the thoughts of RAVAS who managed to put several hundred Guernsey & Jersey working class people out of work,only for the 'problem' to move elsewhere as most people with at least half a brain cell knew it would

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2241486/Retailers-VAT-dodge-shipping-goods-abroad-UK.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

graham

Ray you forget that it was the greed of Guernsey and Jersey that allowed this 'agreement' to be taken over by profit hungry corporations. It does not matter to you that UK shop keepers could not compete with these VAT thieves, thereby closing shops and putting UK working classes on the dole.

Typical one eyed donkey view of the world.

Ray

graham

OK, hands up on that point but you appear to have another fight with bigger fish now that they have been pushed elsewhere

TED

I think the end is coming for the finance industry in offshore tax havens such as ours. The rest of the world is broke and are no longer going to stand by while billions are hidden away from their tax systems. Guernsey needs to diversify its economy now.

Backchat

Agreed it is the only outcome & will solve all our traffic worries, not quite overnight but a couple of months after

Terry Langlois

post of the week!

Bry

Yeah. Pity all the greenhouses and growing land has been taken over for housing. They made Guernsey more or less independent. If the banks are forced out you will all have to emigrate or go cap in hand to Whitehall.

Terry Langlois

at least, they did make us independent until those industries collapsed for their own reasons

Jake

The supermarkets have already ruined the farming / growing ind. Pushing prices so low you can't hardly afford to eat yourself's.

Big business is ruining it for the little independent guy.

Dave Jones

Ted

First of all we are NOT a Tax Haven we ARE a low Tax jurisdiction. Tax haven is a label given to any country, or in our case jurisdiction that has low taxes compared with the rest of the major developed world.

The high tax cartel which is Europe, dislike low tax areas because it shows up the tax burden their own people have to bare.

Also while there has undoubtedly been some shrinkage on our finance sector, the predictions of its imminent demise are simply wide of the mark. This island does business all around the world, not just the UK or the EU. Our Trust companies for instance, have lots of clients outside these two areas, also wealthy people around the globe will always want to invest their money where there are low taxes, a stable government and the accountancy and legal services to support the companies in which they invest, Guernsey offers all of those things.

I think we have to do everything we can to protect our business base and look at ways of bringing in alternative business. But we are still performing well in a world that has seen the biggest financial turmoil since the great depression and if we look after the companies that provide the major part of this islands economy, then they will continue to prosper.

Backchat

Yes I'm sure we will look after these companies, right up until the UK government say we can't anymore, nice to think we are in control but we aren't really

Zab

That would be the same low Tax juristiction that taxes its lower income citizens before they reach the Minimum Income Standard, or even before they put a roof over their head.

Looking in the wrong end of the telescope again?

Ray

Zab

The 2012 tax allowances are :-

Single person £9,200

Single person over 64 £10,900

Married person £18,400

Married couple over 64 £21,800

What would you like them to be?

http://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=4954&p=0

Zab

Ray,

That is a loaded question, you have made it quite clear previously that as far as you are concerned the only arbiter of financial need is yourself, regardless of the views of others, even a majority of others.

That is of course a valid opinion however many of us differ and I personally shall not get into a discussion of the minuatae of lack of how many sausages a week constitute deprivation. Suffice to say some accept the evidence others do not.

Ray

Zab

Oh well,you just keep firing from the hip in red mist riddles as usual then

Ray

Spartacus @ 8.52pm

Crikey,and there was me wondering if once the 'kids' left University their first business experience would be to ask " Do you want fries with that?"

I'm getting a right and justifiable pasting here.I know when it's time to withdraw and the Daily Mail crossword looks do-able today

Spartacus

Using the "official" government figures, Zab is right. Citizens are taxed well below the minimum income standards.

http://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=5654&p=0

Guernsey (weekly) MIS, excluding rent and childcare was:

£231 for a single working age adult without children

£523 for a couple with two children

£313 for a lone parent with one child

£334 for a pensioner couple

You do the maths but if this yardstick is used I reckon the tax allowances should be double.

Ray

Spartacus/Zab

Hands up, the evidence gathered by the three kids from Loughborough University in 2011 show that Zab is indeed correct.Although not quite like for like (because their figures include children) it seems on my 'tax allowance figures' above only the oldies come out of it well

Best part of the report is on pages 9 & 10 where it is shown that the bus service is practically useless for most families hence the reliance on the motor car

Spartacus

Ray

I agree about the buses but the report was not a university student project you know!

CRSP, Loughborough, is one of the UK’s longest established social policy research centres.

http://www.crsp.ac.uk/aboutus.html

And the 3 "kids" you are referring to are:

Professor Noel Smith

http://www.ucs.ac.uk/About/Structure/UCSStaffProfiles/SchoolofAppliedSocialSciences/Noel%20Smith.aspx

Donald Hirsch

http://www.donaldhirsch.com/

Abigail Davis BA (hons) MSC (research)

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/socialsciences/staff/abigail-davis.html

rosie

Ray. I agree that the bus service as it is at the moment is not viable for many family journeys and that increases the need to use the car.... at the moment. It is not a situation tho' that we should allow to continue.

No one.

"First of all we are NOT a Tax Haven we ARE a low Tax jurisdiction"

You can say that tired old cliche as much as you like. It will not change the worlds view. And it will not change the eventual outcome.

JohnT

Dave Jones

Time and again we deny we are a tax haven yet having just searched on Google for the last 10 minutes we are repeatedly included in the lists of the Worlds top tax havens.

The sooner we take our head out the sand and admitt the truth then perhaps this nonsense of repeated denial will cease.

I suppose the thought is if we deny it enough times eventually others will believe us.

I don't believe for a minute it fools the UK tax authorities.

Terry Langlois

the problem is John, that there is no definition of a tax haven.

If a tax haven is seen as a place with low taxes which attracts business from higher tax jurisdictions, then of course we are a tax haven

But often it is used as a term to imply hidden accounts, complicity in evading tax, high levels of secrecy, etc. We don't have any of those characteristics, so on that use of the term, we are certainly not a tax haven.

Remember Panorama recently came to these islands to try to get people to help them hide money from the HMRC. You can bet that they visted a range of trust companies and banks. But they obviously failed, as they had nothing to report. All that they could come up with was a crook from Sark who is already banned from providing financial services and who is now under arrest.

That programme also showed the real tax havens - Belize and Mauritius in particular, where it is apparently possible to hide money with impunity.

Spartacus

A tax haven is any place where assets can be sheltered from taxation, legally or illegally. Guernsey is a tax haven but is well regulated to ensure compliance with the obligations of those who assist, for a fee, in sheltering assets through legally efficient offshore structures which mitigate or defer tax liabilities. The obligations of the beneficial owners of the assets are another matter altogether. It seems that Guernsey's obligations will become more onerous and so eventually the tax haven status will be lost.

Phil

Once again you display your ignorance Spartacus, going by your definition virtually every jurisdiction in the world would be a tax haven.

Spartacus

Phil

Yes that's right, arguably.

Further reading:

http://coppolacomment.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-elusive-tax-haven-definition.html

Don

Well if the world does not come to an end for ALL of us on the 21st December 2012,its gonna end for SOME soon afterwards!

Ray

Don

The Russians have it sussed

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242048/Russia-tells-citizens-Armageddon-come-December-21.html

Scarlett

Well, all I can say the sooner the spuds and toms I've planted here at Scarlett Towers get growing, the better.

We are currently filling in the olympic size swimming pool with a view to re building the redundant greenhouse we knocked down, and I have a trailer attached to the back of the roller loaded up with livestock which should keep us going for a while, at least.

Ahhh, when one has to trade the patent loafers for wellies, we know that indeed, the end is nigh....

must go, those bloody chickens are running riot in the conservatory!!

Chris

Scarlett

Are you a closet prepper?

:-)

A.J.

Unfortunately, when the rest of the world talks about TAX HAVENS It's not about the way we are but,but,the way others see us. And that is our real problem.

Don

On a lighter note watch those chickens Scarlett,we once - long ago - inherited a cock-bird - it became the family pet - grew to huge size - ate everything - even the Beano - then one day Sunday lunch featured a whacking great bird in the middle of the Sunday table - boy - that was great.However,afterwards,when Joey should have been walked around the garden - no Joey - no-one spoke with Dad for months afterwards!By the way,did you hear about the "CD" that was bought by the German authorities from someone in Switzerland that has revealed near 2,500,000,000Euros in "schwartzgeld"and is gonna nett the German authorities a few hundred millions in taxes and fines!Wonder when the first CD will be offered for sale from other places?

maz

I wonder what we would see if we 'opened the books' I have a feeling there are a lot of politicans that will have egg on their faces.

What I find the most amusing is that HMRC can stop LVRC but cannot get Amazon and Google to pay tax on their massive profits! As for Starbucks, supposedly you cannot just 'donate' to HMRC, which seems unfair!

Jamie

IOM have just agreed to a 'son of Fatca'.

Can't see that we will be far behind.

http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/isleofmanfurther.xml

GM

Jamie

I've just seen that. Bad news for Guernsey and far worse news for Jersey.

Beanjar

Whether or not Guernsey is a 'Tax haven' is a matter of semantics. Our Income Tax is relatively low compared to many countries but it is even lower or non existent in others. When local people bang on about it I wonder how much more they are volunteering to pay. Or do they only advocate more taxation for everybody else? Perhaps it is Inheritance Tax they are keen to introduce, goodbye to the ancestral home in that case. Maybe it is Capital Gains Tax they want to pay. They just keep parroting the same old nonsense about the evil finance industry which keeps the bread on all our tables. Instead, why not say specifically what taxes should be increased and what you want the States to pee the money away on?

Ray

Some quite attractive tax rates on this site .. until you add Social Security and VAT to them

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/

jamie

Round TWO .... the plot thickens !!!

http://www.tax-news.com/news/Channel_Islands_Rebuff_UKs_FATCAStyle_Plans____58771.html

IWV

Sounds a sensible move to demand a level playing field although I think it could be many decades before places like Lagos play ball

I wonder why the IOM are brown nosing so early on?