Deputy is outraged Planning 'powerless' to stop fly-tipping

ENVIRONMENT is powerless to stop fly-tipping outside a St Martin’s home because the rubbish ‘does not amount to development’, it has confirmed.

Deputy Barry Paint outside a property in Rue des Huriaux, St Martin’s, where fly tippers have dumped all sorts of rubbish in a resident’s parking space. (Picture by Nicola Gibbons, 1291884)
Deputy Barry Paint outside a property in Rue des Huriaux, St Martin’s, where fly tippers have dumped all sorts of rubbish in a resident’s parking space. (Picture by Nicola Gibbons, 1291884)

ENVIRONMENT is powerless to stop fly-tipping outside a St Martin’s home because the rubbish ‘does not amount to development’, it has confirmed.

Board member Barry Paint received a complaint about litter being dumped next to a shed near the property, in Rue des Huriaux.

He investigated what action could be taken to remove it but was told by planners that no enforcement could be taken under planning laws.

‘Fly-tipping is a problem in the island and particularly since the costs of dumping things have gone up – people would just rather dump things anywhere rather than have to pay money,’ Deputy Paint said.

‘I am very disappointed that Environment can’t do anything, but that is the law.'

Comments for: "Deputy is outraged Planning 'powerless' to stop fly-tipping"

Mark

Surely Deputy Paint is in a perfect position to suggest that laws are amended?

I'm moderately surprised that there isn't something on the statute book about fly tipping already.

IWV

Mark

I think the problem is that it is on private land.St Peter Port Constables have taken Court action against fly tippers on the parish public land

As it stands it would be up to the owner of the property to clear the mattress,bedstead and Budloe in the photo

Phil

Love it Ray, the Budloe would be the hardest thing to shift..........

Binou

This is clearly waste and the remit of Environmental Health and Pollution Regulation. Give Val Cameron, Director of Environmental Health (who is very keen to ban the sale of "home made jam jars", and licence people to carry and dispose of waste) a call on 711161.

Herbert Roth

Perhaps if the tip charges weren't quite so ridiculous people might actually pay and not fly tip. I went the other week and got charged £30 for a bed & 2 arm chairs!

Yvonne Burford

Herbert,

For £15 the nice people at Bulk Refuse would have come and collected these items.

http://www.gov.gg/bulkrefuse

Too late i know, but might be useful to others though.

Stiletto

@ Yvonne Burford

Yes, there is a waste disposal facility available. Your colleague Paint is well aware of this, just ignore him, most of us already do.

St Marcouf

I would have expected the police to have seized the rubbish as evidence for follow up enquiries and testing for fingerprints etc. I then would have expected them to have confiscated the rubbish as the proceeds of crime, to be disposed of as they saw fit.

Conundrum

Hm..

Hate to say it, but if the States would take bulk waste for free for non commercial sites this would be a non issue.

It is unfair to charge £15 to get rid of a mattress when people can barely afford electricity bills, no wonder items get burned or flytipped.

Went on a mission the other day, cycling around a relatively small area I saw eight car batteries abandoned in various places such as hedges and one in the middle of a public car park.

CCTV isn't the solution, people just find somewhere else.

NoEyeDeer

@ Conundrum.

Don't you understand though that if the service was "free" it would have to be paid for by a States Department as nothing is completely free and in doing that, you are adding to the taxes that everyone pays.

When people are short of money, the last thing they want is for more taxes to be charged and lets face it, they effect every person.

I would also say why is it acceptable for any person to fly-tip, when a person does that, they don't think of the consequence for others, or indeed how they would feel if the tables were turned, and somebody fly-tipped rubbish onto that persons land. Just because someone charges to accept waste doesn't make it acceptable to just drop their waste where-ever they feel fit.

CSR

The States did operate a free collection service for bulky items, and guess what, fly tipping still took place.

I don't personally believe the cost (which is £15 for 3 items I believe) is the factor at play here, it is the unbelievably selfish and moronic attitude of those who fly tip.

If someone is dumping a mattress / car battery, then presumably they have bought a new one.... it is unlikely therefore that they are unable to afford the additional £15, so I don't see that as an excuse to fly tip.

Nothing is free.....

I live in the UK and my council provides a very good 'free' refuse facility..... But my council tax is £2400 per year. Methinks I would rather pay your rates and just pay £30 periodically when I want to dump something.

Yvonne Burford

Conundrum,

You can take car batteries free of charge to Longue Hougue for recycling.

http://www.gov.gg/longuehougue

a voter

Dump the stuff on the road then the States would have to move it to the tip.

If the rules are good for one thn they`re good for everyone surely.

Le Andre

You can get round this by having it deemed a health hazard (vermin, chemicals etc) then where ever it is it will need clearing up.

Something_stinks

Take it down to that big vinery burner and chuck it in, Baz.

They'll burn anything down there, and Val C and her crew won't say a word.

Conundrum

Hi..

I think its more that people are lazy, also if the battery is cracked then they tend to leave it close to where it was removed.

This is more of a hazmat issue, not everyone knows how to deal with H2SO4 leakage safely.

What about Li-Ion, those things are nasty.

Damage one of those and there could be a serious fire, this is becoming more of an issue with large Li-ion packs being used for lawnmowers, power tools and electric vehicles.

Took one apart the other day and one of the cells had vented flammable electrolyte because the pack had been dropped from a height and shorted one cell against another.

Rachel

It's not laziness as these people have made a well concerted effort to take these items, load them and dump them. The only difference b/w flytippers and persons who dispose responsibly is certainly a blatant lack of responsibility and assumably also the cost involved.

At a minimum the police could ask around, surely a neighbour/someone would have seen something.

Nige

The problem is, when people want to get rid of stuff, they want it out of the way NOW !!

Waiting three weeks for the states bulk refuse to turn up is an inconvieneance that many won't want, free or not.

Bry

Sadly, there has always been fly tippers, even when there was no charge for tipping at the dumps. Nowadays these kind of Guernsey low life's feel they have more of an excuse for their disgusting polluting behaviour. Really it is all to do with upbringing and discipline in their learning years. I live in a place now where similar scum dump their rubbish in the road outside the gates of the local tip - sometimes even when the tip is open!

What you need in Guernsey is a judge of similar mettle to old Casey - no slaps on the wrist with a feather from him!

Ed

The sole way to ensure that true satisfaction has been created is to locate the perpetrators, fine them heavily, force them to collect their refuse and then discard it at landfill. An even better idea would be to recycle the waste- the culprits must feel debased. Indeed, a major prerequisite for these ignoramuses is education on environmental and ecological matters. Then again, the obstinate nature of certain individuals makes it impossible for the educator to transform the learner's worldview so that it is conducive to the future well being of humankind.

Ed

What kind of justice this ? The Environment agency- the organisation of which the feelings of appal generated from irresponsible waste disposal are most acutely felt- lacks the ability to exert authority over these ignoramuses ? I consider this to be an absolutely diabolical state of affairs ! The political system demands serious, thorough revision so that such appalling scenarios can be averted ...

Rachel

Perhaps Barry didn't really investigate fully- he did say that he spoke to "planners" at environment who told him no action could be taken under "planning laws" which seems reasonable. There's plenty of other laws in Guernsey. Perhaps there is one about the intentional impeding of access to a property? I'm no lawyer but perhaps he should speak to someone who knows more laws than just those that fall under "planning"?

Ed

A voter

(In response to post 8)

I abhor this concept of yours. If this idea is a representative sample of your worldview then thank the universe that not every human being is as injudicious as you. Humankind, fortunately, has advanced since the Stone Age, yet the thoughts and actions of certain individuals are characteristic of those possessed by their primitive forebears. Unless I am very much mistaken, you are the 'A voter' who summed up your poor world outlook by refusing to engage in activities that would serve to mitigate climate change and remarking that a mega-disaster such as a super-volcanic eruption would act as a 'natural check'.

Before you or anybody else dismisses me as an 'Internet rabble rouser' and that my sentiments are irrational and verging on insanity, remember that what serves as an annoyance to a particular individual (perhaps this critical outburst of mine) is an integral part of another person's moral, ideological or environmental crusade.

Ian

Here's a suggestion: try fly-tipping a few old mattresses outside the Bailiff's house. I bet the appropriate department would suddenly find a magical ability to deal with the problem.

CSR

Ian, are you a mate of A Voter? Do you honestly not understand that fly tipping costs the island (and as a consequence every taxpayer)many thousands a year just to clear up a mess deliberately left by an imbecile who doesn't wish to dispose of their rubbish in an appropriate manner.

If someone.. maybe you, wished to dump something outside the Bailiff's house,of course it would be cleared, its what a responsible society does; however it would not be because of the Bailiff's intervention, it would be because everyone else except you, A Voter and the other numpties who fly tip seem to think it is a perfectly acceptable practice and that 'the States' should clear up after them.

Bry

Ed 16

That letter was brilliant1 You must be an ex college boy. I never understood a word!

Ed

Bry

I am actually an ex-St Sampsonite who is currently attending the Sixth Form.

A.J.

What a shame that the few powers available to the Constables of each parish have been removed over the years. Perhaps we could encourage the return of the 'Cobo Boys'. After all, didn't they sort out the problem lumps of granite and derelect cars which had been 'fly tipped' at the Cobo car park?

A.J. Not to be confused with ( AJ )

CSR

A.J. Surely its better not to have stuff dumped in the first place rather than trying to find someone who will clear it up? However you look at it, its going to cost someone ie the taxpayer, to sort out the problem when flytipping takes place.

Its not about who can take action, the laws are already in place, its about preventing this despicable practice in the first place. However, since these idiots generally operate under the cover of darkness or choose remote locations, the chances of catching them is slim. Even if they leave an 'incriminating' item behind, it still has to be proven that they have in fact flytipped... not easy.

Extremely frustarting for the authorities, those who are tasked with clearing up and most of all... we the responsible members of Guernsey society who can see how antisocial and unnecessary these actions are.

As you can probably guess, flytippers are not my favourite of people (if you can call them that).

Ed

Ian has evidently overlooked my spiel- something that substantiates my belief that it is otiose trying to transform the worldview of certain individuals because they have engulfed themselves with their narrow-mindedness and shortsightedness.