Aircraft proposals unveiled in Alderney

ALDERNEY States member Norma Paris has unveiled proposals to acquire a fleet of aircraft to operate the Guernsey route.

dorniera_900
Alderney States member is proposing that Aurigny uses its Dornier aircraft to fly from there to Southampton, but that four or five Islanders, which the airline used to operate, are used for inter-island flights.

The proposition involves setting up an on-island company to work alongside Aurigny, which would continue to operate the lifeline Southampton route with Dornier 228s.

Mrs Paris has circulated an outline of the proposal to fellow States members.

She said the plan was conceived to provide more flights and match connecting services, with the airline controlled, owned and managed on Alderney.

She has recommended, subject to a proper study, the purchase of four or five used twin engine, eight-seater Britten Norman BN2 Islanders – piston engined as they handle short distances better.

She thought they would cost around £400,000 each. They are readily available, she said, and continue to be manufactured.

Mrs Paris says they could also provide medevacs, flights to France and Jersey and carry the island’s freight, newspapers and post.

‘I am suggesting that this operation should be in co-operation with Aurigny and tailored to meet their business plans by routing more Alderney traffic through their Guernsey hub,’ she writes in the proposal.

‘At the same time, it is essential that the economic lifeline to Southampton is maintained and any agreement with the States of Guernsey must have this proviso. In this way the Dorniers will still be used on the longer Southampton flights for which they are much better suited.’

Comments for: "Aircraft proposals unveiled in Alderney"

Atlast

So £2m for the aircraft and no doubt a large subsidy PA for a company to run them, I don't think so.

Dickturpin

I have read all the comments down to "Atlast's" contribution of 14/7.

I think this is all very sad; a constructive idea being rubbished and debased by some pretty uninformed opinion - apparently founded in equally uninformed prejudices.

It is well to remember that Aurigny was an Alderney founded and based Company; Guernsey States took it over primarily to protect the Guernsey/Gatwick route. Since that time, Alderney has suffered ever poorer service and ever higher charges. That is the source of the frustration which has brought about thinking about how to improve things.

Although Aurigny now choose to lump in the Medivac service into their apparent excessive costs, do remember that service is part of a separate contract with Health & Social Services; that cost is actually separately paid for.

There are clearly many myths abroad about the cost to the Bailiwick Exchequer created by Alderney's very existence! For those who choose to seek facts, rather than rely on prejudice, it is clear that Alderney does indeed 'pay it's way' and more. That happy situation will continue to improve as the Tidal Power scheme progresses to fulfilment.

I am aware that many of the myths and prejudices expressed in these comments are actually used and shared by some less than well enlightened Guernsey States Members. That does not help.

Finally, it might be worth pointing out that the old adage about "2,500 alcoholics clinging to a rock" is not a reflection of the truth; the Alderney population is now largely composed of a highly intelligent group of people with wide and diverse experience in business, commerce, science and engineering and the Arts - many with impressive careers in many parts of the World - they do know how the wider World actually works - as opposed to many vociferous but apparently uniformed native Guernseymen!

Chis

I think it would be fair to assume that if the States had not purchased Aurigny, the States would be subsidising for another carrier to serve Alderney, or Alderney would have no air service. Where is there another community of 1500 people that have a minimum of 4 flights a day to and from their own airport, run by a commercial entity?

Atlast

Dr Dick, it's good to see that you are all largely highly intelligent - and modest.

arthur

We need more details. However, it is obvious that Aurigny has plenty of difficulties and is expensive so an alternative ought to be interesting.

GM

Any potential subsidy would need to be weighed up against the existing annual loss of £900k which Aurigny seems to make on the Guernsey/Alderney route.

Alvin

I like the way you say "seems to make" !

Has Aurigny ever given out publicly the figures showing where they are losing money ?

It would be interesting to see which routes are losing money and which are not. And by how much.

Alvin

This idea will never take off.

Aurigny will not allow it and so the States will not approve it.

And quite frankly, it should not have to be even considered. Aurigny should be providing an inexpensive, efficient shuttle service between Alderney and Guernsey and Guernsey and Jersey, with flights also between Alderney and Southampton, Guernsey and Dinard and Alderney and Jersey.

I simply can not believe that flights can not be cheaper and yet also make money !

Insider

And who will pay for all of this?

paulegsy

Does Mrs Paris realise that Aurigny have not used Britten Norman Islanders since the late sixties early Seventies and that they were superceded by the Britten Norman Trislander.

I cast doubt as to why you would need four to five aircraft.

The initial cost at 400K each, but then you have crew and staff wages, Fuel bills landing fees and best of all Aircraft maintainance.

Alvin, I must agree 100% with you on this, it will never happen, I also agree that Aurigny should be providing a proper service between the Islands and France, Dinard service is very expensive.

I am most surprised that a French operator has not seen fit to look at certain French to Channel Islands routes especially for the Brits that have second homes in France.

Toby

There were still Islanders on the fleet when I started working at Aurigny in the late 80's. Only one or two and not for much longer admittedly, but still 2 decades later than you suggest.

mash

Toby

I can confirm this as I Worked for Anglo Normandy in the 80's and we worked on them

Wings

Alderney should also be aware that Britten-Norman are a nightmare company to deal with. Obtaining spares for Islanders and Trislanders is extremely difficult and BN rarely if ever meet a deadline.

Chis

Don't be surprised, there are very few if any European airlines that provide scheduled services with small aircraft, the economics simply don't stack up.

RP1945

They certainly operated an Islander well into the 1990's. There was a short lived Jersey - Cherbourg - Southampton route, and perhaps other attempts to justify.

But is there any guarantee that a new operator would get dispensation to fly a commercial service with just one pilot?

paulegsy

Correction, there was ONE Islander in operation GAXDH which was aquired due to non payment of the overhaul of the aircraft by the red devils parachute team. The aircraft was then used by Aurigny for a short while, all other flights were by Trislanders.

http://aurignyairservices.blogspot.fr/2012/10/g-axdh-britten-norman-bn-2a-islander.html

Toby

All except the ones operated by Twin Otters ....

paulegsy

Correct, but if you want to make a point,Inter Island flights were also flown by Shorts SD360 and ATR72 !!

But we are talking about the Old Islander aircraft.

The Trislander was the backbone of all inter Island and Southampton flights since 1970/1

XDH was the only Islander that was put into service late on not because of need but because it was an impounded aircraft due to non payment of services to Anglo Normandy, the original Islanders VCN,WBY,WBZ and XWP had long gone.

mash

paulegsy

Correct but if you want to make a point the shorts 330 was also used alongside the 360

paulegsy

Not by Aurigny, you are thinking of Guernsey Airlines

Toby

this is turning into a Monty Python sketch ...

Apart from flying the Shorts 330, Shorts 360, Twin otter, ATR72, and BN Islander ... what have Aurigny ever done for us inter island ....

Know the Shorts 360 ( G-OAAS ) well - used to work on it as cabin crew. I left it out as I thought we were discussing the Alderney route ....

Guernzee

The aquaducts?

Toby

And the roads, don't forget the roads ....

Guernzee

so you must be part of the people's front of Judea then?

just love it all

Don't see a problem, rather than Alderney paying £40 million tax a year into Guernsey's coffers from online gambling why not hold a bit back to fund their air-links?

By the way, what does Guernsey do with this £40 million?

Maybe Alderney would be better of to do a Gurnxit, better off alone!

Atlast

A lot of Guerns would support your idea!!

Trevor Hockey

just love it all/Atlast

Count me in, it seems to me that most of the Alderney people just moan about what we aren't doing for them. Independance for Alderney I say, or perhaps give them to Normandy or Hampshire.?

PLP

Perhaps Alderney could declare independence and apply to join the EU? I hear there's a vacancy opening up in the next few years.

no1native

Trevor

Just what part of the 1948 agreement don't you understand?

As for Alderney people moaning. Well, you need to engage brain before opening mouth. Just about everything I read on this blog written by your good self, is either you whinging or complaining about this that or the other.

Trevor Hockey

no1native

As the 1948 agreement was five years before I was born, I know nothing about it nor to be frank am I interested.

If you don't like my posts, then simply skim down, it's as simple as that, but I can go very few places without being congratulated on my letters in the Press, so I will carry on writing them. If you consider whistle blowing or raising issues with our government as "whinging" then that is your opinion.

Atlast

No1Native, then I guess Trevor meets all of the criteria for living on Alderney providing he can drink his fair share as well!

Paul

I think you need to break down the £40 million you quote. Also irrespective of what law Alderney makes to keep companies in Alderney the fact is Alderney does not have the infrastructure to keep the companies going and needs Guernsey. Anyway the offshore e-gaming industry is very fragile and could be taken away at any moment, many finance companies would not touch them with a barge pole.

AndyBlack123

How utterly ridiculous. Has she any idea how much setting up an airline costs!

Oh and I suppose her new airline won't be affected by fog?

I'm not saying they are perfect but seriously stop moaning about Aurigny and have a go at being positive.

onytony

From what I can see form the other side of the would there is only one Air craft that will do this job efficiently and that is the BN@AMkIII-2 a Turbine would be too Costly to run and a BN2AorB would not have sufficient seats! or Load You can get 14 bums on a TRI with a single pilot if it has Auto Pilot or 16 and have two light weight crew and with short sectors and fuel at both ends you would have at least 1.5 tons pay load and there is a Low time Around 4,500hrs and 6000 Cycles Trim Close by just looking for a loving home and it to is the correct colour Yellow, sure it will need 3 engines but they are cheap and you have spare 3 bladed props form Joey, and I am sure a bunch of other parts. Believe Me If I could sort out a 145 maintenance Shop for the one I have I would have picked S/n 1054 up to!

mash

onytony

I would agree and Turbine's do not like the constant hot starts

no1native

Trevor

Calm down dear. You seem to be a very angry man!

Trevor Hockey

no1native

Not at all, it would take more than the constant whinging coming from Alderney to make me angry, it's just that whatever Guernsey does for you it is never enough. It is like a spoilt kid always wanting more sweeties.

As for the drinking, I am sure I could hold my own against most Alderney residents, but having visited Alderney three times I would have no wish to actually live there and I am sure it would look a lot better through the bottom of a whisky bottle.!

DDM

Totally agree with you Trevor!

The worst thing about all of this isn't Aurigny but the residents. They are lucky enough to get the service they do for an island that size but they just keep wanting more! I can't wait for the day Aurigny management try and ditch the ACI route due to the constant negativity. That'll keep them quiet! But I suppose they could all start up their own airline... that will be a laugh!

Trevor Hockey

DDM

Only this morning they are at it again, moaning about Aurigny and that fact that Alderney is not making any money. Well Alderney residents, neither are we, there is a general downturn in the economy and people are being careful with their cash.

As to running their own airline, didn't they try with Rockhopper, which ended up being bailed out by Derek Coates.? Perhaps the SOA could offer Blue Islands a subsidy to run to ACI and Aurigny could drop their constant losses on this route.?

Saints

@ Trevor Hockey

I see you must be an expert on Alderney matters since you have visited three times. I can remember the uproar in Gsy when the Condor Liability cancelled a few times. Imagine that magnified by about a hundred fold and having no other way of getting on/off island. Assurances were given that this reliability problem would be resolved with the introduction of the Dornier, it hasn't happened, if anything it has got worse. This is now directly impacting the economy, people can't get here, the ones that do are arriving without baggage or equipment.

@ DDM

You obviously don't know the history of Aurigny or bothered to read one of the opening posts in this thread. Aurigny was formed as an Alderney company (the clue is in the name) in the 1960's in Alderney, it ran as a profitable business for decades. One of the main reasons it was formed is because the seas in winter around Alderney can be fairly unpleasant and sea travel cannot be guaranteed. I think the record for the cargo ship being unable to dock due to weather stands at three weeks. It's not a question of being 'lucky enough to get the service they do for an island that size'. It is a lifeline service, or supposed to be.

no1native

Atlast

Oh, and you Guerns are tea total!

Atlast

No but we can drink and be happy.

Saints

@ Moderator.

Why not amalgamate the three Aurigny article threads into one? There is nothing more frustrating than engaging in debate and then returning to find your response five pages down and buried.