Cyclists and pedestrians to get priority at Salerie

CYCLISTS and pedestrians would have right of way over motorists at the entrance to Salerie car park under a proposal put forward by Environment & Infrastructure.

Salerie Junction

Under its £50,000 plan to make the area safer, the cycling and pedestrian paths would be set back from the road.

An application to change the layout, including a raised platform at the entrance, has been submitted to the Planning Service.

If approved, alterations would be made to the junction layout to slow traffic on entry, while changes to the layout of the recycling area and bus stop would also take place.

The long-awaited proposal follows collisions and reports of near misses at the junction.

Environment vice-president Mark Dorey said they would address several safety and traffic concerns.

‘There are many competing demands at this busy junction so the committee wanted to ensure that improvements will provide a safer crossing point for cyclists and pedestrians, reduce the speed of traffic entering the car park and at the same time enhance the area,’ he said.

Comments for: "Cyclists and pedestrians to get priority at Salerie "

Vivica

I'm a cyclist, and i think this is a flippin' terrible idea.

Utter waste of money, if anything more should be done to slow down less alert cyclists when crossing the entrance.

You SHOULDN'T be slowing already very slow traffic even further.

Please, don't waste more of our money making that death trap of a cycle path even worse.

James Murray

Well said. It's a death trap, and it's not improvable without stopping cars from crossing it (and buses from stopping in it). And stopping cars from crossing it is impossible.

It's also too narrow for pedestrians to share with cyclists travelling in both directions.

It should just be shut altogether. Cyclists are much safer on the road.

Vivica

Amen, any cyclist capable of 10MPH+ is better off using the road in my opinion, safer for everybody.

FUB

It will be interesting to see how they set the pavement and cycle path back further away from the road when they are already up against the sea wall?

The easy solution to the current problems on this corner is to stop traffic exiting right and only allow it to exit left towards the roundabout. The existing plan means that you have to wait for gaps in two lanes of traffic before you can then turn right to head north and often you will have to exit from behind cars waiting to turn into the carpark from the South. That little dash between the gaps is an accident waiting to happen.

That or install a simple filter in turn. Its not complicated and shouldn't cost £50,000 to paint a few yellow lines on the road.

Mr Bee

Very poor idea. Cyclists just need to be more aware.

Vivica

Absolutely! As a die hard cyclist, i agree totally.

SteveX

On dear GP, another article about cyclists, cue the mass hysteria then...

Glad this deathtrap is finally being changed. The plans look sensible and define right-of-way etc a lot more clearly than at present. Taking the path away from the road slightly is a good idea it's great that cyclists and pedestrians now have priority as it should reduce traffic speeds when entering and exiting the car park.

I speak as someone who has had several near misses here and frequently cycle on the road to avoid this junction. I would be much more confident of taking the kids out on the cycle lane with this new layout.

Rocquaine Pirate

If you have had several near misses, do you not think it may be you who is the problem.

SteveX

Not at all, it's very difficult to judge all 3 directions of oncoming traffic, plus any other cyclists coming the other. I always stop and look 3 ways before proceeding. The near misses come from people shooting over the yellow line (which I thought means STOP) or southbound traffic failing to indicate when turning into Salerie.

LeftoutGuern

Deathtrap, let's not muddy the water, the sad accident happened when a lorry turned into the side entry and didn't see David.

My personal thoughts are the Lorry driver is at fault, everybody knows you cannot drive through the side entrance unless you are towing a boat, but that's a different story, the best thing they done was close it completely.

Most of the near misses and they are near misses are down to two parties the cyclist doing there best Tour De France impression and the driver half asleep turning into the car park.

Nothing will change the cyclist will ride at 20 >25 mph around that corner and drivers will still be asleep turning into the carpark.

Donkey Boiler

Typical greenie idea. Make sure that ANY accident is ALWAYS blamed on the motorist. This will encourage even more arrogant riding by some (I said some), cyclists who already simply put themselves in danger in order to force motorists to give way.

Guernseymale

Sensible idea ,if your cycling on the road you have right of way same as the rest of the traffic,so why should you stop just because your on the cycle path?

Island Wide Voting

Have to say that the plan as shown on the news at 6pm looked quite practical with cyclists and pedestrians having to follow a U shaped bend in the cycle path before rejoining the path on either side of the car park entrance

It will be essential though to physically prevent,probably with railings rather than flower tubs,any possibility of pedestrians or cyclists following the natural human trait of taking the shortest possible route, i.e straight across the proposed new layout

LeftoutGuern

https://gov.gg/article/155827/Safety-Improvements-planned-for-cycle-and-pedestrian-paths-at-Salerie-entrance

This is going to cause endless tailbacks, the bus lane is gone, but the bus stop is still there, so instead of the bus pulling in to allow traffic to pass it will now block traffic, causing tailbacks which will fall straight into the hands of the greenies.

"Signage and the raised platform will alert motorists that pedestrians and cyclists, following the direction of the main road, have priority across the car park access in line with accepted best practice."

That means you only need to give priority to the traffic going towards town, if they are coming from town then it's your right of way ?

"'There are many competing demands at this busy junction so the committee wanted to ensure that improvements will provide a safer crossing point for cyclists and pedestrians, reduce the speed of traffic entering the car park and at the same time enhance the area. We hope that changes such as these will also encourage walking and cycling."

Burford hatred towards the motorist is continuing with her protegee Barry Brehaut

50k for the changes must be a gold plated service.

Would of been easier and cheaper just to move the pedestrian and cycle path behind the wall and have them come out by the old marina exit, just a thought.

Election Issues

I agree that these proposals could cause even more problems. I like your idea of moving the pedestrian and cycle path behind the wall.

This new 'plan' is to cost 50,000 pounds and see priority removed from the motorist as well as changes to this junction layout to slow traffic going in and lose more car parking spaces as well. How slow does traffic need to be going into the Salerie car park? Two miles an hour? Five? At a complete standstill? Tailbacks? More congestion?

"We hope the changes will also encourage walking and cycling" - Not sure that changing this junction in such a way will do that but these changes may very well cause even more problems than those that exist at the moment.

LeftoutGuern

Can you feel the car free town slowly coming into fruition, by causing the tailbacks it falls into the hands of the car free lobbyist.

We don't have to look to far back when the other traffic calming experiment went south.

Heres another far out idea why not just leave everything the way it is and add....wait for it...Speed humps, like St Andrews road or Cobo works there, why wouldn't it work here?

I would guarantee it would not cost 50k to implement.

We can go a step further and have speed humps every 100mtrs all the way across the front, from the bridge all the way through to the roundabout, this will not only encourage the cyclists to use the multi million pound cyclepath that was installed, but it would also help with slowing down motorbikes and cars, and rid the island of the Kevs.

I don't like to blow my own trumpet but I'm a bloody genius :)

SteveX

LeftoutGuern,

By your comments I'm guessing you've never traversed this junction other than in a motor vehicle

- This is not 'greenie' but primarily to improve road safety and is long overdue

- What bus lane? Am I missing something, we don't have any bus lanes over here, do you mean the bus stop?

- The cycle lane is 2-way, therefore both ways will have priority over vehicles entering and exiting the car park.

- Nothing to do with 'hatred towards the motorist' just some common sense road design with though for all road users. 50k well spent!

- If you move the cycle path too far away from the road (e.g. round the car park) then there is little incentive to use it and most cyclists would use the road instead.

LeftoutGuern

Steve X, on the contrary I work pretty much next to it, so I am fully aware of the morning Tour De France.

If you want to get pedantic the bus layby that allows the bus to pull in and allow other vehicles to pass will be gone,so the buses will be blocking the road which in turn will bring tailbacks.

"- If you move the cycle path too far away from the road (e.g. round the car park) then there is little incentive to use it and most cyclists would use the road instead."

And this is why the motorist is sick of the whole lycra fascists that scream for more to be done for safety and when an option comes along where it the cyclist has to slightly deviate from a straight line they moan that there will be no incentive to use it, they will use the road instead. there is no helping some people.

DM

Guernsey - a small island, with not far to go, full of narrow roads packed with cars. How does this enhance the quality of life?

Island Wide Voting

What .... like in the photo at the top of this story you mean ?

LeftoutGuern

IWV that's a good point there is a sign on the cyclepath GIVE WAY,

Highway code meaning of give way sign:

172

The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1),16(1) & 25

I wonder how many cyclists ever noticed that sign.

James Murray

The sign is not on a road: it's on a pavement. The "cycle path" is just a section of the pavement with a white line drawn intermittently, and not a proper cycle path.

If it were an actual cycle path, it wouldn't (and shouldn't) have 'give way' signs on it, bus stops across it, pedestrian crossings on it, junctions into car parks crossing it, and no safe way either to get onto it or to get off it. It just peters out at each end.

Cycling on the road is safer, faster, and more convenient. So why would anyone want to cycle on the pavement there?

LeftoutGuern

James please go and read your Highway code book, it is a cyclepath and yes that sign does have to be obeyed.

I do agree though there is no safe way on or off the cycle path, when I cycle work (fair weather rider), and I don't wear lyrica (wouldn't want to scare people), I do find it difficult to get on and off.

Maybe this is where the Environment should be looking making access onto the cyclepath easier, but that would need some sort of consultant to come over and design a low impact, non intrusive way of changing the whole road lay-out.

rosie

LeftoutGuern. I think that they are looking at the beginning and end of the path to see how safety can be improved.

IMO, the cycle lane is not primarily for lycra clad cyclists who are out training, but is for those like you who use it to travel from a to b. Safety is paramount to encourage as many people as possible to use it so that the pressures caused by car use are lessened so bringing benefits to the whole community.

Re your comment about moving this section of the cycle path behind the wall....... I suspect that would cost even more than the redesign suggested and would certainly require the removal of several car parking spaces if that's what you would like!

LeftoutGuern

Rosie

I can travel on it safely, but then again I know my highway code and I tend to be fully aware of my surroundings, but changing a junction is not going encourage me to cycle more.

As for moving the path behind the wall I took a look earlier, I reckon it could be done relatively cheaply and we would only lose 11 parking spaces, as you said we need to lessen the grip of the nasty car anyways.

Ram

Car drivers and cyclists have to get on together!

There is no sense in spending £50,000.00 on altering this area!

The court case over the cyclist that died settled on the Highway Code-cyclists should give way at junctions when on a cycle path.

The money should be used to fund an upto date review of cycling in Guernsey

How factors such as uncontrolled meetings arranged ad hoc on social media

The strange desire of the minority to dress entirely in black/dark clothing

The lack of enforcement of rules that do exist

There are two sides to every coin! , yet a blind eye is usually what happens with regards to

The cyclists involvement in any incident .the actions of both parties should be looked at on an equal basis.

rosie

Ram. What makes you say that 'The court case over the cyclist that died settled on the Highway Code'? What do you mean and where did you pick up that information?

He didn't die at 'a junction'.

Beagle

LeftoutGuern. Having had an argument myself with a senior member of one of the Guernsey cycling groups at this very spot I can confirm that even some of those cyclists who should know better just don't understand road signs or markings, or the Highway Code. Apparently, according to this abusive, arrogant cyclist if you have already gone over a give way line, traffic on the main road has to give way. Really?

Mars

What a waste of our money! GIVE WAY is already painted on the road, if cyclist can't see that they shouldn't be on the roads! The highway code covers all forms of transport, not just car drivers.

If anything is needed, a filter and pedestrian crossing would suffice and be a lot cheaper.

I drive and ride a cycle and have not had an accident in 30 years, mistakes do occur but if you are careful, respect other road users and look out for danger you are far safer

James Murray

It's not painted on the road - it's on the pavement. Any cyclist there isn't on the road: they're on the pavement.

Cyclists should be on the roads, and not the pavement.

I'd suggest saving the £50k, and turning the pavement back into a pedestrian-only area. Pedestrians would be safer, and so would cyclists.

concerned guern

that will cause tailbacks at rush hour here we go again

Island Wide Voting

I'm seriously thinking of moving from the Vale to the High Parishes ... but I don't think I could stand the isolation

SteveX

Tailbacks!? How many thousands of cyclists do you think there are that use the cycle lane?

Paul

Mr Brehaut why are you doing this? "Because I Can.....!!" What about the potholes along the seafront which are a danger to vehicles and cyclists? " Sorry no money" But what about the £50,000 your spending on Salarie and the thousands on bike shelters? " Ah, that's different".............. and so it goes on.

Trevor Hockey

Paul

Don't forget the potholes at the bottom of Les Villes es Pies.! Once again our Environment Department are hell bent on wasting our money when there are other priorities, as you say the roads and the sea defences.

Barry Brehaut you show no leadership at all.!

Moderate

Trev

Shall you be standing in the vale so that you can bestow upon us your leadership?

Trevor Hockey

Moderate

No, I am not putting my name forward due to business committments, my sales assistant is trying for the army and if he gets in then I just would not have the time to do both jobs properly.

At least if I had got in then I would have brought thirty five years business experience to the table, unlike some deputies who are civil service or corporate clones. (Or should that be clowns.?)

markB

Trevor - why not just employ another sales assistant?? you can't be that busy, you're on here 24/7

Trevor Hockey

markB

Thought about it but not easy to replace someone with three and a half years experience without quite a lot of training, which if I got elected I just would not have time to do as I would have to hit the ground running so to speak. Also, like many businesses we are not as busy as we would like to be so we may just go through the winter without replacing Alex, if he gets in.

I often post between customers in when some would have a coffee or smokers break, as I don't smoke or drink coffee it is my short break.

Itma

From my experience there must be a Guernsey Cyclist Adendum to the Highway Code, that allows cyclists to

Ride across pedestrian crossings

Ride the wrong way up one-way roads

Ignore traffic lights on red

Ride on pavements wherever they want

And generally ignore any signage that impedes their progress, including the Give Way on the Salerie pavement.

Unfortunately it's the minority that get the rest a bad name and they need to be dealt with Mr Rice!

markB

It makes -You forgot under-taking. Swearing, spitting, shouting loud, riding 3 to 4 abreast, holding up traffic while chatting how brilliant a road user they are.

Sofa King

trevor

Thats a good idea you have zero chance of being voted in dont be a clown once again being rejected once by a huge margin is enough for most people with brains

Trevor Hockey

Sofa King

Despite doing absolutely no canvassing, I still got over 16% of the votes, in what must be one of the hardest areas to get in, with three very strong deputies re-standing out of six places available. Over six hundred people voted for me, so they did not agree with you.

As to your comment on another subject, that I have not been able to reply to, I have borrowed money for my business, it is no state secret and I am grateful for Sarnia Mutual for their support when the banks were unhelpful. Yes, their interest rates are high, but I was able to use their cash well to service the loans and still come out on top. As a matter of interest, I have never defaulted on any loans and my credit record is good, not every businessman can say that.

As to your comments about me sacking an employee, you are incorrect as I made him redundant as that would look better on his CV. As it happens, I made the wrong choice, I should have sacked him. We made history as being the first employer to get the six month payment reduced to three, so I believe that the tribunal saw that we were not the bad boys we were made out to be. The employee concerned was sacked by J. Biggs & Co who employed him after us for going AWOL for over a week with their firm's van.

Trevor Hockey

Sofa King

p.s.

Laurie Queripel only posted a couple of hundred votes more than me on his first time round, despite doing all the door knocking.!

donald

Whatever the law says,cyclists just ignore them!And mostly get away with it!

InteresTed

Got to love the bitter and twisted stuff here. 'Saw a young person on a bike smiling so drove especially close to show how angry' etc.. The roads are rights of way for everyone - even the old guy in the grannie mobile taking salerie at 6 mph --live with it.

futu

InteresTed - Wow what a change of heart for someone who constantly complains about being stuck on the west coast road behind granny cars going slow!!! (or any other road for that matter!) LOL

Ram

going back to my earlier post!

see the general opinion of the majority

there is a need for a serious review of cycling in Guernsey

to see what can be done for the best.

before any body else is seriously harmed

perhaps even a cycle licence where you have to have an understanding of the requirements

law wise.

then everybody is on the same footing and its equal for all!

LeftoutGuern

See GP open lines page opinion is a cyclist.

What I would like to know is how they know about the number of near misses, it's not like it's recorded anywhere so how do we know it's such a death trap when there has only been one fatality in say 10 years.

I'm sure there have been other roads where there have been more accidents involving cars and bikes, but let's concentrate on the whole traffic strategy to annoy the motorist and we will use the tragic event and escalate the problem so that we can justify changing something that is not broke.

There are signs there that cyclist's need to read and understand but sod that let's give them more rights.

If it sounds like I'm annoyed I am, the lefty states would rather bend over and take one from these greenienewworldorderlovethyneighbourletssavetheworldremovetechnologybackwardsnotinmybackyard hypicritcs.

This Island is going down the pan due to misinformation and vanity projects, where are the stats to justify the changes, whether it be Salerie or the amount of money the cruise liners actually bring in.

Quote from the press today:

" A couple of more danger points and bus laybys remain to be addressed but what seems like a common-sense solution at the Salerie is a decent step in the right direction.

If the Island is serious about a transport strategy that encourages cycling, walking and the use of public transport, islanders need to feel safe when they are on the road.

That comes at a price, but it is one worth paying."

I am finding it hard to swear, but for christ sake common sense is the last thing the states have, the junction is fine, it's the people that need educating learning road signs and obeying the highway code.

We are trying to idiot proof a system that has been working for centuries, just to tick a few boxes, they closed the main issue which was the marina access, nothing else needed to be done.

Heggarty

Hi Trevor.....a small thank you for the army then.

Trevor Hockey

Heggarty

Good to hear from you again, I thought you were dead, but it must just be from the mouth upwards.!

If you honestly think that some of the newbies (and some of the old guard) are really doing a better job than I could have done then you must be deluded, the current assembly, with some notable exceptions, are a wet , lily livered bunch of left wing lunatics no better than we had before and surely strong candidates for the "Worst States ever" award. Amazingly, I find myself agreeing with a lot that Peter Roffey writes.!

Sentinel

There needs to be a complete review of the use of cycles on the island roads. For a start many of the island's pavements are under used and cyclists should be allowed to use them if they wish providing they give way to pedestrians. The authorities have explained the way that cyclists should behave on our roads but many continue to ride almost on the centre line just so they can chat to their friend and hold up the traffic behind. They must have thick skins.

If the aim of the states is to make cycling safe on island roads why do the authorities turn a blind eye to :

groups of thirty or more racing hell for leather.

the use of these arm rests and extensions leaving a large gap from hands to break levers

strobing lights.

Are they insured to race on public roads, does anyone know the braking distances for a cycle.

Number plates and licenses should be issued.

100% Donkey

Sentinel

Totally agree.

Cyclist usage of our roads (by some) has become a joke and needs to be addressed. The Island's roads are becoming infested with two wheeled idiots who think they're in the Tour de France.

I'm all for everyone getting their fair share of our roads but holding up the general traffic has to be stopped before someone gets killed.

I would suggest a law that cyclists have to ride single file in front of traffic as a natural way forward. Nobody should object to two mates having a chat on an empty road, but common sense and common courtesy should prevail when traffic pulls up behind.....

Gustaflepelley

So if there is a group of four you think it's easier and safer to overtake four single file than two by two abreast? Perhaps you should have a look at your driving if you do.

(I do agree that the Tour de Sez etc packs of 15+ riding not terribly fast at the same time should be stopped)

100% Donkey

Gustaflepelley

There's nothing wrong with my driving, what you fail to work out is that on a lot of our roads you could pass single file cyclists with ease.

Admittedly if there was 15 it would create a bit of a train !!

SteveX

Sentinel,

Disagree with pavement use, even if it were allowed, 95% of cyclists wouldn't use them. It would be OK for cycling with kids as they can use the pavement but most are too narrow to cycle on safely. You would also get those drivers who think that cyclists must use the pavement and become abusive (as you do when cyclists use the seafront rather than the cycle path).

Groups of 30 are very rare and mainly on Sunday mornings. If you don't like them, then speak to the Velo Club.

Strobing lights are unfortunately becoming more of a necessity to be seen on dark nights. It is part of a bit of an 'arms race' with car manufacturers who produce those horrible white lights which are much brighter than the more traditional headlamps. Strobing lights stand out more and definitely work (as I can attest having twice had near misses with drivers who have pulled out in front of me, just avoiding a collision then claim that my normal non-flashing headlight is not bright enough!)

MajorMajor

If London can carve an exemplary cycle super-highway straight through the centre of Europe's largest city (with the most chaotically arranged street-scape in a large European city to boot), surely Guernsey can agree some sensible arrangements for a mile or so of seafront?

Gustaflepelley

The problem Guernsey has is the lack of respect a lot of road users have (on both sides, car drivers and cyclists) for the other users.

In London drivers (as an example) know they will get prosecuted for anything remotely dodgy.

In Guernsey little is done about unsafe driving other than the odd speeding ticket for driving down Footes Lane in the school holidays.

MajorMajor

Don't the majority of road users have respect? Filters in Turn rely on our respect for each other and it is a common refrain that because of this Filters would not work in the UK. In many places (more so where overtaking has added risk) cyclist commuters queue with cars at traffic lights.

Surely it's only a minority that do not respect other users, but that the cycle lane on the seafront has problems (and that elsewhere our narrow winding roads make overtaking trickier than we might wish)?

Heggarty

Cor eck! Trev I seem to have pushed a Donald Grump button there...full apologies for making you so upset....it was interesting to read how many cliches you know...not as daft as I thought then. But I am known for being generous in my own special way.

Trevor Hockey

Heggarty

Not grumpy with you particularly, I can take it as well as dishing it out but we just seem to be going backwards with these new committees, half of whom don't seem to make any sense.

I even surprise myself with how intelligent I am sometimes.! One customer said "I like your letters in the Press, I didn't know you were that intelligent.!"

Vivica

Go look at the plans, they want to get rid of the bus lay-by... Because that works SO well on the front?!

This NEEDS revising.

Markymark

There were some comments earlier in this thread regarding the Guernsey Velo Club that I would like to address.

The GVC, with the support of both Guernsey Police and The States of Guernsey holds races on the public roads, our racing is governed by the rules of the British Cycling Federation, in addition we have our own rules and guidance which governs racing locally.

All of our riders have £5m Public Liability Insurance cover when taking part in our events, additionally any rider who is also a member of British Cycling has additional insurance coverage depending on the level of their membership. Many of our members also have additional insurance policies, that not only cover racing but recreational riding too.

The GVC carefully plan our events to take place in locations and at times that cause the minimum of disruption as possible. Our full program of races can be found on our website and our season usually runs from the start of March to the end of September.

We continually review where and when our races are taking place to ensure that if there are any other events, road closures of heavy road demand we will alter the time and location of the event and a risk assessment is carried out on each course we use.

The majority of our weekend road races start before 7.30am on Sunday mornings, with a few exceptions, this year we have started some of our longer events at 6.30am to minimise disruption.

Over the last few years we have reduced the number of evening events to a minimum and have mostly focussed these on the quieter Perelle/Rocquaine Bay courses to avoid the busy areas of Vazon and Cobo which we have previously used.

We currently do not organise any road racing East of the Airport except for the Val De Terres Hill Climb (Sunday 18th September at 8am - usually lasts 30 minutes) and Petit Bot Hill Climb (not held this year). For the first time this year we had one event that went North of L'islet, around Les Ammareurs and then back south, however this course will not be regularly used and was only included in our calendar due to the sea wall works at Rocquaine.

The sea wall works at Perelle and Rocquaine have been particularly problematic this year and we have limited the number of events in these areas to avoid further disruption. Where we have used these areas, we have ensured the we have safety stewards in place to ensure the safe flow of both cars and riders taking part in these events, on one occasion where the works had made it difficult to ensure we could do this effectively we applied and paid for the road to be closed (between 6.30am and 9am) this was done with support of both the police and environment.

For the majority of our road races the start is staggered according to ability and to reduce the size of the group riding on the road. We have four divisions and riders are grouped accordingly. We occasionally hold scratch races where all riders start together, however these groups quickly break down into smaller groups as the race progresses.

For the 2017 racing season we will be banning our members from riding with flashing front lights in our events, we have not taken this decision lightly as the improved visibility of riders, especially early in the morning, that flashing lights offer is negated by the difficulty of other road users being able to establish the speed of approaching riders and being dazzled by the brightness of some these lights. However we will encourage our riders to use static lights.

We have strict rules of racing which are rigidly enforced, these are written in accordance with the highway code and the British Cycling Federation rules of racing. We take any complaints about rider behaviour during our events seriously and investigate all complaints. If a rider is found to have breached our rules they face sanctions including the possibility of being banned from competing.

Riders taking part in a GVC event all wear fluorescent Yellow or fluorescent orange numbers on their backs, if the rider is not wearing a number as described they will not be taking part in a GVC event and consequently we have little control over how or where they ride although we do ask our members to consider other road users when cycling either recreationally or training.

The Guernsey Triathlon Club organise events which take part on the road, they're riders will normally wear a white number. The Triathlon club are governed by their own rules.

A poster mentioned shouting - when riding in a group it is common for the lead riders to let the group know of any oncoming traffic, pedestrians or other cyclists, this is to ensure that the riders at the back of the group know what's coming up.

The GVC has no connection with Tour De Sez or it's riders other than offering advice when asked.

The GVC is also supportive of any practical initiatives to make cycling safer for both our riders and other road users.

Finally if anybody would like anymore information about our events, rules and safety guidance or insurance policies please feel free to contact either myself, Mark Smith (GVC Safety Officer) or Gary Wallbridge (President) contact details for both of us can be found on the GVC website.

LeftoutGuern

Markymark

I would be interested in your take on these new changes, and when you race do you use the cyclepath provided?

Also do you know what group ride out in the black and grey, I get stuck behind them most sundays about 08:00 from Bulwer avenue as far as the red lion, where I turn off, they often ride in groups of about 12 and 4 abreast, these are the sort of riders that give the rest bad name.

They all plough through the filter with no disregard for other traffic users.

Gustaflepelley

There's a certain charity ride (I won't name in case this isn't the lot you see) who are normally in grey tops and often going not particularly fast as they're not all MAMIL type cyclists, and often totally disregard normal filter and roundabout rules.

Great cause but horrible approach to road safety.

John Surcombe

If by 'a certain charity ride' you mean the Tour de Sez, which I am participating in, I'm not sure it is us LeftoutGuern is referring to, because the Tour hasn't done that route on a Sunday for several weeks now.

We certainly don't ride more than two abreast, but we do ride pretty close together. Of course we are relatively inexperienced, a lot of us are novices, group riding takes some getting used to, and we aren't perfect by any stretch, but everyone has to start somewhere. Each group has experienced leaders embedded within it.

We do follow the rules of the road of course, but will pass through filters as a single group if it is safe to do so. It does seem to be the best approach, rather than breaking the group up into ones and twos spread over hundreds of feet which really would cause havoc. I do the same when cycling with my children as well, and motorists generally seem to accommodate it very well.

I've cycled every day for the last 10+ years as my main means of transport, and paradoxically we receive markedly more respect from motorists when training with the Tour than I do when doing the work run. So from that perspective it has been very rewarding, as well as being great preparation for what will be a considerable physical and mental challenge.

Rupert Walthumstow

Markedly more respect or is it just that even the most anti-cyclist motorists realise that overtaking thirty cyclists riding around together during the rush hour is a bad idea?

John Surcombe

Yes, markedly more respect.

The Tour has not held training during rush hour, and only once in a group of thirty or more (last Sunday morning).

Markymark

LeftoutGuern - The GVC does not have any races along from Bulwer Avenue to St Peter Port, so no, we don't use the cycle path. I believe the Triathlon Club may use this section for some of their races.

Personally if I do venture through town on a training ride I'm normally travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic so will ride on the road. The cycle path is not the place to ride at 25mph.

markB

markymark - just tell them to watch the language. only last night a gaggle of Lycra lads passed my house F'ing and Blinding, they seem to forget they are cycling passed peoples gardens with kids playing etc.

Markymark

markb - as I said in my post, we can't control rider behaviour when they are not racing, and just because someone is on a road bike and wearing lycra they may not be a GVC member - however we will remind our members about language as per our handbook.

During a race most "chat" will normally be as per my post and will be warnings of where other road users are. Not that easy to have a chat about the weather when your heart rate is 90% of it's maximum.

Saints

@Markymark

You have been hung by your own petard.

In your post you admit riders from the GVG shout to other riders and admit that you start racing using public roads from 0630 on Sundays, but apparently you can't appreciate why that doesn't upset people, your arrogance is astounding.

Ray-Marshall

Motorists break laws and get prosecuted, ala road signs.

Cyclists break road laws all the time and get given a 50k crossing.

Traffic lights and signs apply to all road users, regardless of what form of transport you choose you are still expected to abide by them, not cycle thru red lights then moan about near misses from other traffic who are in the right.

God forbid there is another fatality but this is just a waste of taxpayers money when a cyclist who breaks the law should be treated the same as other road users. Prosecuted.

InteresTed

I'm not a Lycra cyclist-too old and unfit but I find some of this rather threatening.

The 'I can squeeze past you' brigade are not very different to the angry'roar past you and pull in within a foot to shock you' tribe --very unpleasant and I think getting worse. God help the little family taking their 9 and 10 year olds for a ride.

For those who trivialise a traffic death, it is also statistically very significant given our population and therefore merits investigation.

There is quite an unpleasant current growing here and I'm not convinced all involved are mature enough to appreciate this. You are allowed to cycle and should not expect intimidation-but I've certainly noticed it more recently.

jjlehto

@ InteresTed

I completely agree with you. There are not many roads in Guernsey where you can safely fit 2 cars and a bike abreast.

There are a lot of miserable posters on this thread. Most of them remind me of The Old Gits from Harry Enfield. At the end of the day there are quite a few obnoxious idiots in lycra around, and plenty of idiot drivers too.

Rupert Walthumstow

Totally agree, but what can be done to encourage more friendly interaction? Everyone seems to be in a rush over here and rage about a cyclist delaying them ten seconds in their five minute journey.

Relax people, relax.

markB

What ever happened to the Lycra lads

Castelian

There seems to be a feeling that if you are in your car you have the absolute right to get from A to B with the minimum disruption. This means that any hold ups are viewed as an infringement of that right and whatever caused the hold up, whether that be a road closure, or someone driving slowly, someone temporarily blocking the road as they get in and out of their drive etc, causes the driver to go into a melt down.

I am starting to worry that more and more drivers are getting themselves into some kind of state each time they drive. It used to be that you could stop your car and have a chat with your mate coming the other way...oh but you couldn't do that now as you would have some person behind you beeping away because you held them up for a minute.

If you are not driving an emergency vehicle then what is the rush? I know we all have busy lives but is getting to your destination a few minutes early really worth all this road rage? Is overtaking on a corner really a good idea? Are you not just stressing yourself out for no reason and putting yourself and other road users at risk because you want to get somewhere in the shortest time? I worry that we are becoming an Island of 'me me me drivers' and no-one has time for anyone else to be on the roads with us at the same time.

We all need to chillax!

bcb

I think you are slightly exaggerating there? :).

While what you describe does happen it certainly isnt as bad as your post reads.

That absolute right to get from A to B seems more applicable to cyclists if i were to be honest (yes i cycle too.) red lights, no entry, wrong side of the road, etc are all fair game to "some" cyclists.

Just the other day i witnessed one passing the candy shop in town on the wrong side of the road straight through the red lights then onto the pavement then back onto the road and continued till he got to the turning by the town church. Why the hell arent the police booking these prats? this kind of cycling happens on a daily basis so i can only assume the police are turning a blind eye to it?.

Rupert Walthumstow

Or the police have other things to do, just like they miss the 80% of the population who could be caught speeding on a daily basis but are not prosecuted. It's not turning a blind eye it's prioritising (some could argue they are prioritising wrong but that's a different question).

bcb

Its not turning a blind eye its prioritising, Really and just how do you know that? i call it turning a blind eye and while i would`nt suggest booking people for minor offences there certainly seems to be a policy of letting cyclists off no matter what the offence. When was the last time a cyclist was prosecuted? there are some serious traffic offences just as the one i described above which occur on a regular basis, I know the police have other things to do and i dont expect them to catch everyone but i would have thought it was obvious to anyone that i wasen`t suggesting that, obviously not to you.

Rupert Walthumstow

I would have thought it is pretty obvious it's difficult to prosecute cyclists unless you are on the spot and see / catch them there and then.

Would you therefore be happy for your taxes to be spent on a policeman whose job it is to stand along the seafront every day and hand out on the spot fines to cyclists or cars that drive through the (ridiculous) 20mph zone at 23mph, rather than investigating e.g. drug offences, drink driving, domestic abuse?

I'd rather the latter to be honest and not get stressed about the odd cyclist (not all) pratting around and cars that speed by 2mph.

bcb

Well done for completely taking out of context everything i said. Did you even bother to read my post? obviously not because you would have seen i said exactly what you describe as something i wouldn`t want to see. If you think the police never see cyclists breaking laws that would see any other motorist in court then your deluded.

InteresTed

I haven't seen any of these horror story cyclists----omg perhaps its me! But just a thought. How many 1 way systems, roadwork diversions etc. consider the aged cyclist like me. Extra mile - no problem, down a big hill and back up - not an issue. There is a case for contra flow for cyclists - who will then not take your parking space. Given a huge vehicle queue most bikes do sit in the pollution when really they have every right to slip around the outside - why? Actually its the overall intimidation - they really should not be inhaling your tail pipe but skirting the queue ends with some very angry motorists who actually aren't held up by the action. Every bike means an extra parking space. Look on the bright side and try it yourself sometime. You'll be surprised how close 2 ft feels.

Guerning

There are some decent and some ridiculous comments here. At the end of the day its common sense, road sharing and courtesy that should take precedent here by both parties. There are some cyclists and some drivers who should not be on the roads at all. However, they are and we all need to deal with that. What some drivers tend to forget is that they're sitting in a lump of metal while the cyclists have no protection. I cycle to work everyday for various reasons fitness, fresh air, expense (it costs nothing and you're straight to your office) and a sense of doing something I love.

I use the path daily and run into cyclists who are going too fast or on the wrong side (not that there's any signage but using common sense you would ride on the left) but then again when I'm on the road I run into cars who are speeding and who come within a metre of me, which is not pleasant. Cars should only overtake when there's a clear road - road sharing!!

Salerie Corner needs to be made safer as currently there's too many factors making it unsafe. I know from previous experience, I've been hit by car (and before anyone says anything I slowed down and checked for cars but given the sunlight on that morning you couldn't see any indication of the car) entering Salerie from the north. Surely, by taking cyclists/pedestrians away from a junction is a good thing. However, cyclists/pedestrians should not have priority before cars, I'd rather wait until a car passes or waves me on before crossing. I wait now and will always wait until waved on or the area is clear.

However, as I said above, road sharing and courtesy should take precedent.

Cher Eugene

My pet peve is runners, walkers and joggers who flout Rules 1 & 2 of the Highway Code Rules for Pedestrians by failing to use footpaths because they are on the wrong side of the road, i.e. the left hand lane rather than the right hand lane facing the traffic - see Rule 2. I am also annoyed by runners in the road when there is a footpath beside them, for example long stretches of the West Coast road where the foot path is on the seaward side of the road but runners going North still use the road and expect you to give them at least a yard clearance although they, and you, would be happy with 12 inches if they were on the footpath.