Comments for article

Heather Trockey

When I was a parking warden in the 70's I wouldn't have put up with this.

Too complicated. Reminds me of my time in the army, far too many rules and regulations there. I didn't last very long with them though, no one was interested in my good ideas.

A doctor friend of mine told me yesterday that he's seen plans for a helicopter landing pad as part of the castle breakwater repairs. MADNESS! During my time as a planning officer I would have thrown that straight out. (did I mention anything about the cycle path going over budget yet?)

Salerie Corner Sign

Fantastic.

beast

And so begins the annual shafting of the locals!

Devil's Advocate

....except it's not, there's MORE spaces for MORE days than there are days with FEWER spaces.

beast

Which you can't get to due to front\town area being one big hold up of traffic. Due to all the extra coaches\busses going\to from the Albert.

And the 'Visit Guernsey special constables' stopping every single car for the is it/isn't it a crossing so some tourist can be escorted across the road like children

feels like a shafting to me - however Traffic and Transport spin it.

whatsgoingon?

Despite the article stating more spaces - are they the correct spaces for the majority of users. The 10hr parking has been removed next to the café at the model yacht pond and replaced with 3hr, the 10 hr along Havlet wall will be replaced with 2hr for the season and large chunk of parking at the Bathing pools will no doubt change back to 2hr during the summer months.

Where do the office workers park who work at the South Esplanade end of town - consideration needs to made here.

If you arrive at this end of town any later than around 8:15 it is luck if you get a long stay parking space - this will be impossible with these changes again this year.

Not sure if this is workable or not but why not paint marked pays all the parking from the slaughter house down as some of the parking skills on show most mornings are laughable!

Devil's Advocate

Isn't the Havelet / bathing pools are always turned to short duration parking in summer?

As for painting individual bays in the parallel parking - it doesn't work efficiently because you'd have to have every bay suitable for a massive car.

There shouldn't be any problems with parking in the area as Credit Suisse have laid off loads of people over the past couple of years.

#gashtag

@whatsgoingon?

There might be a clawback of the 'fishermans spaces' by the slipway for the summer. Why this exists in winter I don't know as the only car parked there is that Aston Martin that gets ticketed constantly.

If you want to park along the slaughterhouse/emplacement strip now you have to be there by 7.50am at the very latest or it's down to the bathing pools.

On your comment about the parking skills, I wholly agree. There is an incredible amount of selfish parking, leaving excessive space front or back. Some of the worst culprits are on the exit side of the slaughterhouse where parking is limited to the left side. Also, some of those parking at the end of zones often leave several feet front or behind which makes zero sense.

#lazy

#selfish

#incompetent

#gotospecsavers

FUB

Why did they change the landing point to the Albert pier again? I recall it might have been for health and safety reasons at the old landing point. If so why are the local Herm and Sark ferries still allowed to use this "unsuitable" area?

beast

Because they wanted to. The H+S report was bull, The Guernsey HSE reviewed it and said it was written with a unfair weighting being given towards to the Albert Pier landing.

Which why the report has never been made public despite repeated calls for it to be published.

FUB

Confirms what I thought to be true. I also heard that the Albert Pier was chosen purely because it was a shorter and more picturesque walk into Town and nothing to do with H+S as the disastrous courtesy crossing or is it not a courtesy crossing debacle demonstrated.

beast

Plus the White Rock needed to be kept free as that was where all our waste was going to be exported from!

Read the full 'Ports Master Plan', scary empire building of the highest order, and a massive one finger salute to the Guernsey Public\taxpayer.

Just look at how far up the North beach the 'Port Area' has crept......

Rottweiller

beast

It's very simple. When you pay a consultant, you can brief them on what you want them to say and they will do it. That is why a raised walkway three feet above the road with a granite wall on one side and railings on the other was a "hazardous area".

Spin, BS and cover ups and it is an absolute disgrace that the Deputies didn't demand the public release of this report, which WE, THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS, paid for.

Another shambles, just like paying off the signal station staff and going to the JESCC maritime fatality just waiting to happen. Who will be falling on their swords when it happens, and no doubt taking away a nice lump sum.?

Devil's Advocate

Because the volumes of passengers off the Herm and Sark boats are smaller, a significant percentage of those are locals that know the dangers of the freight handling arrangements in the area, and many won't be on foot, or heading into North beach carpark. There are a lot more liner passengers who are also unfamiliar with the area and looking at things other than where they're going.

FUB

Devils Advocate you are talking from your satan hole.

If it's unsafe because of the freight handling arrangements you cannot make the assumption that a local will be any more safer than any non local and in the same way the volume of passengers is irrelevant.

The White rock landing also caters for foot passengers from Condor and whatever ferries running from France. These passengers are just as likely going to have no idea where to go.

Devil's Advocate

It's all about risk assessment - you look at the consequences of the risk and the likelihood of it happening. The consequences are the same, but the probability is very different due to the liner passenger volumes.

donald

And the "air Pollution".But someone has to pay for These poor mortals!

Donkey Boiler

Now that the overpaid, overpensioned, waste of space Environmental Air Pollution Director has decreed that the air quality around St Martins school is now marginally less negligible than it previously was, maybe he can allot a little of his expensive time to investigating the huge air pollution caused by visiting cruise liners with generators running all day.

YG1234

Totally mad to drop cruise passengers at Albert Pier. The congestion and loss of parking is so unfair on locals. The White Rock is used less as Condor has cut back on sailings and worked very well for many years.

Nothing against cruise passengers but it just does not work at Albert Pier.

Rottweiller

YG1234

Regrettably, you can see this, I can see this, most of the blooming island can see this, but we seem to have some overpaid, pigheaded civil servants who insist on having their crazy way whilst hiding behind the politicians.

Devil's Advocate

There's more parking for more days - read the article.

Donkey Boiler

All very valid comments on this subject, apart from the usual obstinate offerings from DA, who again appears to be supportive of the move to Albert Pier.

Devil's Advocate

I'm not supportive of anything, just explaining the reasoning behind it and correcting peoples mis-comprehensions before they go and spout them onto others. I'm fed up of people complaining that there's less parking when it isn't the case.

Island Wide Voting

G.E.P.21/3/17 page 5 .....

While the alternative parking arrangements are in place,there will be a total of 46 fewer car parking spaces available in Town on each of the 69 days when larger cruise liners are scheduled to visit on a Monday to Saturday between 21 April and 8 October

Devil's Advocate

...and the article above:-

"On non-cruise ship days - of which there are currently 88 days on a Monday to Saturday - there will be an extra 25 car parking spaces available in Town as compared to the current numbers."

So, 69 'worse' days versus 88 'better' days. I rest my case.

LOCALGUERN1066

I really am at a loss as to why so many 'locals' seem determined to be negative. As an island we need to generate income to pay for all the things we need and at the moment we have the huge advantage of tourists, in good numbers, being delivered to our island. We should be rolling out the red carpet for them, providing a fantastic experience and selling ourselves so we can get their cash now and persuade them that another visit is worthwhile. If it means a few of us 'locals' having minor inconveniences about parking so be it, as other 'locals' lively hoods are reliant on these tourists. Be positive and please think of the bigger picture and consider all inhabitants of the island. It wouldn't do any harm for a few to park elsewhere, use the bus or I dare I say do something healthy like walk. After all it's only for 69 days - avoid town on those days if you are not happy.

whatsgoingon?

I understand your thoughts about 'many locals seem determined to be negative' but in this case I am not sure that is 100% fair. I realise there are more issues around the cruise ships than just the parking issue and from my point of view I think the cruise ship business is a good thing. The more visitors we have on the island the better - word of mouth marketing is worth more than any brochure or TV campaign - in fact if you can create 'ambassadors' for any brand they are worth their weight in gold. Anyone visiting Guernsey that leaves with a positive impression that they share with their friends and loved ones is only a positive, so the more that come, the more that talk about it and possibly return or encourage others to book.

However - if the cruise industry is to contribute to the Islands economy in any meaningful way then local residents shouldn't feel pushed aside or hard done by. Parking is only a small issue in all of this but it is a big one. If the industry wants to make every cruise ship passengers journey special then they need the buy in and resulting positive attitude of all locals to make that happen.

Avoiding town on cruise ship days isn't an option for a very large number of people - we work in town and need to be able to park. There have been a number of instances where parking has been removed or re-zoned recently to the detriment of the people working in town.

Space is limited, no I don't have an answer (some ideas maybe) or a solution but just think that you cannot, on the surface, make one industry look like the saviour of all things tourism whilst at the same time not accommodating or at least trying to accommodate locals in the grand scheme of things.

wallygator

You seem to be missing a point in all this.

Yes I agree we need the tourist and the cruise ships help a little.

However the landing should have been left at the White rock and no parking would need changing around the Albert and Southside etc.

Also as a tax payer, I am paying for the States works to change all the signage every time this happens, sometimes only changing it for a few days then changing it back. Unless this is done by the fairies!!

islander

I would like to know why there are so many permit holders parked down at the harbour and what jobs do they do? In the past it was only harbour master and stevedores who were issued with permits.

Time they removed administration away from the harbour and put a gate across from the lifeboat station and a check-in security officer to check documents before entering including staff.

Maybe Passport office can be moved back into a building such as Frossard House and not down an unsecured site such as the harbour.

Esprit

It is paid parking for harbour staff and users. Brings in a lot of money.

An Al Forever

I guess the same people complained about parking when the powerboat racing was in town,i wonder how many millions of pounds that has cost local businesses in revenue ?

Head in sand, bang on wall, history repeats itself

But lets blame someone else all day long

Rottweiller

My goodness, something that you and I agree on.!!

The island lost a fortune when the powerboats went, every hotel, guest house and campsite full for at least a week, Town restaurants fully booked, shops doing a roaring trade, hire cars, the list is endless.

The States got a rent for the North Beach, made money from craneage, flower displays, rubbish disposal, marquee's were hired, outside caterers made a mint, we should be working getting it back.

An Al Forever

Attitude is everything in life.You can complain about everything,or remember how sweet the milk tasted.

wallygator

Yes I can only remember how the milk tasted as I no longer can afford to buy it, but that is another subject.

An Al Forever

More negativity wally its like a disease

wallygator

AAF no not negativity the truth. Milk up by 7% yet another rise and my wage not changed in years.

Robbo

Will someone please remove all the chevron parking bays down by the fishermans quay and replace with square on parking spaces, like North Beach and see if you can fit maybe a few more cars??

Also if a little bit of the green island could be removed and kerb line altered half way down, a few more cars could be parked sideways rather than end on with big gaps?

Also Bathing Pools could have some spaces re-aligned at the cost of some paint.

and all the above could be done, very simply and maintain traffic flow / emergency vehicle access etc etc.

just spare a thought for all the office workers moving there cars every 2 - 3hrs in the summer.

Devil's Advocate

The area's not wide enough for 'North beach-style' parking where the herringbone parking is.

LOCALGUERN1066

When there are hill climbs at the top of the Val Des Terre the field is opened at the top for spectator parking. Why not have that area open for additional parking on the days the cruise ships are in ? A gentle stroll up and down to town and a reasonable compromise in my view. Might keep the negative contributors happy !

whatsgoingon?

Yes that would work, or change the bays around the model yacht pond (not the sea facing ones) to 10 hr, or change the parking by the café down there to 10hr again, or stop the hard standing for the row boats and move that storage back onto the grass areas (removing a single space at the end for access).

The thing is there are lots of options available but as ever it seems the simplest is the one chosen, to benefit one section of the community and everyone else left to get on with it - we have lost so much parking in town and not just from the cruise ships, look at North Beach that it is getting difficult to park if you work in town.

No spaces for workers means taking up short term spaces and changing your clock every one or two hours, which means less short term parking for visitors to town, which means less people, less money spent on the high street and it goes on and on.

Just needs proper consideration and planning, but I fail to see that happening anytime soon....

Island Wide Voting

What is about to happen soon (unless those busy bees at the Law Office have fallen behind again) is that all the 5 hour slots in Town will be given over to residential permit parking .... one of YB's parting gifts

Devil's Advocate

"Yes that would work, or change the bays around the model yacht pond (not the sea facing ones) to 10 hr, or change the parking by the café down there to 10hr again, or stop the hard standing for the row boats and move that storage back onto the grass areas (removing a single space at the end for access)."

So where do you expect visitors to Castle Cornet / model yacht pond / Boatworks / Breakwater café etc. to park? Why were the rowing boats moved to by the model yacht pond in the first place - because the grass area doesn't work, it's not enough area to manoeuvre the boats and it stops the congestion caused by the rowers moving their boats 100 yards down the pier at walking pace.

"The thing is there are lots of options available but as ever it seems the simplest is the one chosen, to benefit one section of the community and everyone else left to get on with it - we have lost so much parking in town and not just from the cruise ships, look at North Beach that it is getting difficult to park if you work in town."

Benefit one section of the community? Plenty of sections of community benefit from the present arrangements. As for North beach, for the hundredth time NO SPACES WERE LOST! The 'lost' spaces were replaced by ones on the east arm, Salerie, and changing of port permit spaces around the harbour to public ones.

"No spaces for workers means taking up short term spaces and changing your clock every one or two hours, which means less short term parking for visitors to town, which means less people, less money spent on the high street and it goes on and on."

Your comment doesn't make sense - if 2/3hour spaces are changed to 10hour they will still have the same workers parked in them, they just won't be illegally clock changing every 3 hours.

Esprit

Of course they were lost, unless some sort of magic was used. The 'alternative truth' spaces that were created were already being used by others so few extra spaces were created, most were just a careful bit of shuffling so that it looks like something is being done. Fisherman spaces removed, so they now park in the disk parks etc.

B'Lana

Its not about parking..... Its about avoiding a crush of 000's of people. So we do have 88 days to go to town and mosey up and down the High Street, meet and greet friends and family. Our choice, not sure about the long term impact.

davegorvel

What a Welcome to Guernsey landing in a car park walking though cars, a small congested town area

before taking a risk crossing the road.

When they see the green buses which they are told cost £1 for a round island trip with the Guernsey taxpayer paying £2.23 to give them that privileged. All aboard 40,000 of us and locals can wave at us as we go around.

I heard on the grapevine Baz is with the economic brain working, is to give them a £5 voucher extra to spend locally.

This will be a total of 40,000 x £6 will bring in almost 1/4 million, am sure Peter Ferbrache and the

E&D will help as it is entrepreneurial and in keeping with new Locate Gsy and Greenhouse budget.

As for where most people use to land here, appears the harbour elite are creating an empty empire and getting rid of income raising passengers.

The cruise line passengers had a nice quiet scenic walk down to the Clock Tower where they and the coaches could disperse in a less congested area.

Certainty the White rock had its heyday in the 80s/90s when 10 million trays of tomatoes with other produce left the island. 30 to 40 coaches collected tourists for the different accommodation places.

Now most of our freight comes in early morning and is taking to the depots at Bulwer Avenue leaving the harbour quiet during the day.

Not much danger for people using the White Rock?

Vraic-eater

Have patience. Given the attitude of the States to the Fishing Industry and the laws governing it, there will not be any commercial fishermen in a few years time so there will be more parking room for our finance industry workers (if they need it).