Roadside charging stations for electric vehicles considered

THERE are now 75 fully electric vehicles registered in the island, more than double the 35 of 12 months ago.

Picture By Shutterstock. 16-05-17 Generic electric cars
Picture by Shutterstock

Traffic and Highway Services said it was looking into the possibility of pay-as-you-charge stations around St Peter Port.

As part of the transport strategy, it was keen to put better resources in place for electric vehicle owners.

‘[The rise to 75] does seem to indicate a growing interest in electric vehicle ownership, which is to be welcomed as electric vehicles are emissions-free and produce significantly less noise pollution than their petrol or diesel variants.

‘Officers in Traffic and Highway Services are currently investigating the possibility of introducing a small number of pay-as-you-charge stations in St Peter Port as one of the transport strategy work streams.’

Comments for: "Roadside charging stations for electric vehicles considered"

markB

yes that should enhance the look of town, not.

understandable if you where driving 200 miles to another town or city, but Guernsey?? what's the point.

Toby

yeah, the first thing I thought looking at that picture above was

" hasn't that picturesque street scene of parked cars been ruined by those ugly recharging stations" ....

Island Wide Voting

Add to that lovely image in your mind the clutter and chaos which will be caused when / if recycling bins are forced upon us

Google 'Recyling bin chaos' if you want to see 'picturesque' streets galore

Eric

All in favour of the use of electric vehicles here but surprised, given the mileage most of us would do, that you would need charging spots in public places.

The large majority would only need to charge at home, and even then only every few days. That said, if priced correctly they they could turn a small income for the States, or at least cover the installation costs.

Beanjar

The States will NEVER cover the installation, maintenance, repair and servicing costs - so you can forget that straight away! Electric car users will probably also be charging them with off-peak leccy anyway, so the cost at home would be negligible.

Walrus

The island is small enough for people to manage their charge easily and charge at home.

chris1

Why on earth do highways et al want to waste money on electric top up points?? Every householder who owns one of these cars should have that connection at their house. The garages should be providing this service as well. the full battery should last 100 miles if used properly therefore there is no reason for the Highways/traffic to put them in, Surely it is the responsibility of the car owner to make sure that He/She has a full tank to start with.

On the opposite side of the coin. When they break down, AND THEY WILL mark my words RUN out Of Electric, Puncture No spare fitted from new, they then rely on a Diesel recovery vehicle to take them to a place of charging or repair. Not altogether the most carbon friendly vehicle.

Toby

Petrol/diesel cars also breakdown and need recovery, so no difference there.

They also run out of fuel ... that's right, you can fill them up in minutes, you can even carry spare fuel around to top them up, and yet people still manage to run out. If it is responsibility of the car owner to make sure that they have a full tank to start with then that should equally apply to petrol/diesel/lpg/hydrogen powered vehicles.

Beanjar

So for the sake of 73 electric vehicles Environment might start installing charging stations at enormous public expense? Every one of these vehicles will be parked at a home, business or hotel tonight where they can be charged quite easily. To even be considering this when the longest point-to-point journey is about six miles verges on lunacy. And this is while there is constant improvement in the range of electric vehicles! Isn't this just another instance of the States mimicking everything that they throw money at elsewhere, where it might actually make sense?

markB

They really should sack whoever came up with wasting their time and our money on this stupid idea.

Toby

You do realise that not everybody who owns a car also has a parking spot outside your house don't you ? Do you expect everyone to trail extension cords from their front door to whatever parking space they can find of an evening ?

And yes there are only a handful of electric vehicles on the island right now.

100 or so years ago there were only a handful of combustion engined cars too. A quick glance at the roads around town will show that that number has gone up a bit over time ...... as will the number of electric vehicles. Putting in the infrastructure to accomadate them now is sensible forward planning surely ? Do you think garages made a mistake putting in forecourt fuel pumps ? After all, the handful of people with cars were more than capable of storing and filling up with fuel at home .........

Devil's Advocate

Spot on Toby. Somewhere like Victoria road is a prime example where the points would be useful. Everyone else though....no.

Seeker

Well said Toby, at last someone who can see past the end of their nose. In many cities across Europe, they are putting in charge points by the dozen for electric cars. It really should be a no brainer. The cost of installing is peanuts compared to some of the public infrastructure projects.

The charge points could also be located at supermarkets and hotels, anywhere with parking just for EV's to top up. It's forward thinking and shows Guernsey in a good light. It's also good for tourists too if they can bring their car over and charge it easily..

markB

Toby ... so you want the pavements filled up with rows of these ugly things?The thing is you don't just drive up,fill up and drive off as with petrol, they take a long time to recharge. just look at the picture do you want that outside your house, along every street with parking?

Toby

No I wouldn't mind seeing these all along streets. They are no more or less of an eyesore than the cars parked next to them.

And the longer refuelling time of electric cars is precisely the reason why the fuelling infrastructure has to change.

markB

how wide do you think our pavements are?

Not sure what you mean buy .....

"And the longer refuelling time of electric cars is precisely the reason why the fuelling infrastructure has to change"

Devil's Advocate

He means that if it took as long to refuel a normal car as it does an electric one everyone would have a fuel pump at their house instead of using a filling station. Thus, the current refuelling infrastructure of filling stations needs to change to one where cars can be charged overnight.

markB

DV .. But its hypothetical, they don't take that long to fill and conveyance is king.

I remember watching Tomorrows world back in the 70's and they had a program about automatic transmission for cars, and said in 10 years time the manual gear box will be a thing of the past, 40 odd years later the manual gear box is as popular as ever.

Saints

Amazing!! Where do people think the energy required to manufacture electricity comes from???

Likewise, the energy required to manufacture the batteries for these things??

It's all a complete 'green con', electric vehicles are powered by 'unicorn farts'.

Beanjar

And not just the electricity, what about the manufacture of all those batteries?

markB

you are right, by the time you are just breaking even after buying the car, you need new batteries which are very expensive.

Toby

Nissan have a plan to convert old worn out batteries into industrial scale backup power supplies.

Trouble is the batteries in their cars aren't wearing out so they don't have any to build a prototype .....

Toby

The same place all the electricity to manufacture combustion driven vehicles comes from. The same place the electricity to refine oil into petrol and diesel comes from.

The total carbon cost per mile for an electric vehicle ( the carbon cost of manufacturing the vehicle, including the battery, and the carbon cost of generating the electricity to fuel it ) is dwarfed by the total carbon cost per mile of a conventional vehicle ( not just the carbon cost of the manufacture, but the carbon cost of drilling for oil, transporting that oil to a refinery, refining it into petrol/diesel, transporting that fuel to a forecourt pump, and then the carbon cost of burning the fuel in the vehicle ).

markB

yes good point Toby,

So maybe we could do with a a waste to energy plant to fuel these things.

Toby

Capturing waste heat for energy is a great idea. As would be "renewable"* energy sources like wind.

Given the amount of hot air that it generates the States chamber would seem a great place to start .....

*I use quotes because of the misuse of the word renewable. Once you use up energy it is gone, you can't renew it. Once you've extracted energy from the wind or the tide or the sun once you cant use that energy again. Yes another tide will come along, another gust of wind, and the sun will rise again tomorrow. But wait a few million years and geological and biological process will bring along some new oil reserves too. The difference between fossil fuels and "green renewables" is the speed with which the energy source is "renewed".

End of pedantic rant.

If you think that was bad don't get me started on "new & improved" ......

Paul

So the article says they are looking into the possibility of installing these which suggests public consultation yet Barry ( it will cost what it will cost) Brehaut is boasting that E&I have already approved installation at a SPP car park. Are we deliberately being misled again? What is the cost? How many spaces will be lost to shoppers? Will users be guaranteed a parking spot and for how long?

As others have said this is entirely unnecessary as no one needs to drive further than a full charge made at home. As for needing them along Victoria avenue or other public streets are you proposing to take needed parking spaces for cash strapped families or elder drivers for those who can afford the £30k plus for an electric variant?

gypoppy

I think you can pretty much guarantee that the people who own these electric cars are generally the more affluent members of society and I bet that there are some who have difficulty parking in town daily.

Now if they can get a number of spaces in town allocated for 'electric vehicles only' then i am sure it will make their parking a lot easier, due to the low amount of competition that their will be for these spaces (whether they actually need to charge the vehicle or not).

The only thing i am surprised at is that they are not demanding spaces be exclusively allocated for drivers of BMW's, Mercs, etc. at the same time.

markB

gypoppy - they are currently a rich persons toy,

I would have thought that if someone is going to the expense of buying one of these cars they would want to be able to charge the thing from their own property.

LOCALGUERN1066

Amazing that attitudes of some of the comments above. We need to accept change but with caution.

Nimbysim rules on this island (not in my backyard.) They would spoil the look of the streets - so what? - not everybody has the luxury of a drive etc and people have to park on the road.

Perhaps a compromise would be to install them in Beau Sejour and a few other key town areas for overnight charging only thus not taking up daytime spaces?

Having said that I do have doubts about the long term future of 'electric only' cars as 'hybrid' cars seem to be a better current solution and are becoming more common. An electric car with a very very small petrol engine that charges the batteries whilst you drive and thus there is never the need to 'plug in' along with a far longer mileage range is another bonus. Every taxi in New York was a hybrid when I visited last year.

We do need to accept that the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered but we need to think about other new developing technologies as well. Perhaps a cautious limited number of chargers in the first instance, with strict records of usage,would make sense until we see how the technology develops?

Jake

Considering doing something?! People voted people in to twiddle their thumbs, not consider things!

Makes me sick.

Beanjar

Reading these comments I always get a fairly clear idea about which are from taxpayers and which are from those who sup from the taxpayers' teat.

Jake

Interested in your ideas (for once) Beanjar on this, although I have no idea how you would judge such a thing on the information above.

Who do you think fits into each category?

Beanjar

Suffice it to say, you are firmly in the latter catagory. If you are neither a public sector 'worker' or on benefits I would be very surprised indeed. No doubt you will deny it anyway.

Jake

I will deny but without a lie (poet and I know it).

I've never worked in the public sector and have been employed since I was 14 (bar a spell of 2 weeks between jobs during which time I did not claim any benefits). I firmly believe in paying your own way and never relying on the state. Got my work ethic from my mother who worked all her life even when she was a single mother raising two children and not claiming anything.

I'm just not material and do not mind paying more to help those that have less than myself. Working hard is it's own reward, if it comes with money then great, if not then i would do it anyway.

Back on topic though, I don't think we need charging stations just yet as anyone buying an electric car is more than likely going to have their own driveway to charge it themselves. Also technology improvements that are going on at the moment might mean that the technology changes in a few years to allow for faster charging times (talk of 5 minutes in the tech community) and it would be a shame to have to replace all the unused charging stations. Maybe a quick solution would be to ask the owners of these electric cars if they would have a need for a charging station, if not then what's the point!

Beanjar

I had friend who, like you, was proud to say he did not work in the public sector. It turned out that he owned a private company but all his clients were government and public sector. In which case, I still deem him to be 'supping from the taxpayers' teat'. Does that sound at all familiar, Jake?

Jake

Not at all familiar. I work for a private company whose clients are members of the public.

I wouldn't say I'm proud to not work in the public sector though, I just happen to have never worked in the public sector.

Island Wide Voting

....."Maybe a quick solution would be to ask the owners of these electric cars if they would have a need for a charging station, if not then what's the point!"

BINGO ... except the replies might not fit in with the great greenie vision of modal change

Beanjar

Of course, it is a possibility that people would have considered how they would charge an electric vehicle prior to buying one? Somebody with more sense than BB, obviously. I can see the point of somebody providing an emergency, mobile, charging service for twits who forget to do so. But filling our streets with eyesores and blocking parking bays for hours while they wait is beyond belief. The cost would be astronomic, just to pander to the egos of a few greenie zealots wanting to 'make a statement'. It sickens me.

Toby

The real point of the charging stations isn't to help out those who already own electric vehicles ( because they must have a way to charge them off the street at the moment ). It is to enable those without the capability to charge at home to own and use an electric vehicle.

When car ownership really began to take off in the 20th century the government put in place free public parking for the benefit of those who didn't have access to private parking. A benefit I am sure all commenting enjoy to this day. Using your argument anybody who doesn't have access to private parking at home or at work shouldn't buy a car ......

Common sense

The island needs to progress with change but at the moment the amount of electric cars does not justify the huge expense of implementing this strategy but as more cars are purchased eventually this provision will be needed and planned for but not implemented now

Questions need to be asked by the states when this goes before them.

1) where should the charging stations go as the road infrastructure does not support road side fixture (two bays at each major car park perhaps)?

2) how much will is cost (the real cost not BBs proposed figures e.g. salaries corner?

3) how will this be paid for (because knowing BB he will implement free electric) as the users should be charged and the cost not passed onto the taxpayer?

4) has any real analysis been completed e.g. Non bias facts obtained from an independent source (and not some advisor from Bristol) and not a BB wish list.

5) how much benefit would they be e.g. Would the public want to use the service and have to park up and walk home only to return to collect their vehicle later or would they prefer the extension lead option so they can park outside their house?

6) due to the limited size of the island how widespread would this programme need to be (in the UK it is necessary due to length of journey)?

Unfortunately BB has a wish list and has no intersest in how much projects cost (defined by his cost what it costs attitude).

In the UK private companies provide the service and this can be considered.

Drivers on GSY pay over £100,000,000 in tax a year so no further burden should be put on them, if it is given the green light it need to be funded by BB cost cutting within the environment department however that would require him to understand economics and figures something he is woefully inadequate at.

Paul

But Barry Brehaut is bragging that E&I have already approved these! Is he bypassing States general approval on this policy decision, hiding behind it's a different budget that the States has already approved? That same E&I budget that cannot provide any funds for road safety improvements for all, sea defences, bathing pool repairs or even sorting out the dangerous road markings by the Town church. We really need a new E&I president whose first thought is not how can I hide this!

Common sense

This is just the same as when the Environment dept changed the road markings and lane systems along the front, because of how the system is set up they have carte blanche on decisions such as this and only when there is sufficient public uproar do the deputies take an interest. The deputies should have learned during the last sitting how much public dismay can be caused by an ineptly led department and formed a system that would prevent this kind of thing happening without concent of those sitting or an introduction of a strict policy when money can only be spent when a project has past a cartain criteria e.g cost benefit analysis.

Wait until residents start getting the bill for the new waste strategy through the door of £250 plus and have to buy bags forcing questions to be raised about states cost cutting and wastage. Hopefully the weekly reminder when the bins are put out for collection will make the electorate get rid of all the deputies like BB who waste money at the next election.

Mark

Where on earth does your £100m figure come from? I've only looked at the 2015 states accounts but these only show a total of £67m from "other taxes" which would include fuel duty among others so some way short of your number.

LOCALGUERN1066

The whole tax burden for us, on Guernsey, is ridiculously low when compared to almost every developed country.

What is undoubtedly true is that the way the burden is distributed is unfair. Low earners pay far too much and the more affluent simply don't pay enough. The imbalance needs to be addressed and some fairness added to the overall tax system.

For motorists the price at the pump more or less equates to UK prices which in reality means we pay considerably less as we don't have the burden of road tax or MOT tests. As a motorist I need to accept that I am polluting the atmosphere and should be encouraged to use greener means such as cycling, public transport or less polluting vehicles. If I don't I should accept that I will pay for my polluting ways. I personally have no problem with that.

It amazes me that there are no MOT testS part of which is an emission test. The reality is if the EEC goes ahead with it's plans that all those on european roads will have to a cross border certificate of safety and emissions means that if you want to take your car abroad in the future it may well be that we will have to have a test of roadworthiness here. Again we can't complain if our neighbours choose to be a little more sensible. Add to that the poor condition of many of our cars because we have no testing or service requirements means that one day a child will be killed by an unroadworthy vehicle driven by a driver who is not fit to drive because we don't insist on age related driver testing either. It's only a matter of time.

100% Carre.

The worrying thing is who's going to be responsible for people tripping over all these electric leads because you can guarantee they will .

Keef

That's why they wont be placed anywhere near the harbour. Those leads look too much like hoses.

islander

This is just time wasting or surplus staff being told to find something to do.

Its time our senior politicians put their departments to work on things more important being todays issues. People voted in deputies to work with the publics interest and not their own.

75 electric cars purchased with their owners knowing that they will need charging reading their car manual so they would already have charging machines installed at home and reading their manual will know how many hours/miles before recharging. The owners without the interference from the Environmental department already will be charged through their electricity tariff so why need highway charging stations?

There are more important issues to be resolved in this states term that they promised to deliver. Education, Health and Welfare.

Paul

So why didnt Barry Brehaut tell us that he has already approved the installation of these in North Beach car park, what the impact is on other car park users and what the real cost is? Also what steps will be taken to ensure it's not just one or two users who sees this as a convenient car park space for the day.

Saints

I've already checked the date and this article wasn't published on the 1st April.

I was in two minds about posting this link, afraid our political elite will think it a good idea.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/ep-tender-could-give-electric-cars-unlimited-range

Donkey Boiler

Will Barry the Spendthrift also be installing on street charging points for all those new houses that have been built with no parking spaces, because the leftie treehuggers in the States thought it was a good idea?

Alvin

In another article it was stated that Guernsey Post will, within two years, have a fleet of 18 Nissan electric vans, each with a range of 85 miles, and an operating cost of only 10 per cent of the diesel version. Guernsey Electric are installing 7 charging points at the Post's HQ.

That's great, and, one day, maybe in ten or twenty years time, the number of electric cars and vans on the island will rise ten or twenty fold, up to even a couple of thousand, or up to 5 per cent of all vehicles operating on the island and then, maybe, and a big maybe, the States can start thinking of installing charging posts willy-nilly around the island.

Until then, it should be up to private entreprise to lead the way. Petrol stations, shop car-parks, hotel car-parks etc that have space for over-night parking, could install, at their own cost, such charging posts and rent them out to persons who get an electric car and who have nowhere at home to park and charge.

QED

Island Wide Voting

Surely the best place to install these greenie chargers are alongside the many stainless steel cycle racks dotted about the island.At a stroke it would double the 'look at what we're doing to save the world' message

I believe that both adornments can be purchased from polluter-in-chief China at a reasonable price

blomen

Guernsey is probably the world's most obvious place to have electric vehicles. Any range problems are non existent.

And it's even more obvious a place to have self owning and driving cars that can be summoned when the time comes. I've never understood why it's so heaving with cars.

Common sense

It is not a simple as just distance, other factors include how hilly the areas is, as it has a direct bearing on the amount of electircity required to power the vehicle and thus the battery life.

In relation to being able to charge at home and plan your route you are right the island is perfect.

Paul

I have my doubts on the number of vehicles here. Over the years how many registrations have simply never been cancelled when a car has been exported or come to the end of its life. A simple amnesty and a project of contacting registered owners for an update would reduce the number. Also hire companies and garages hold stock , so the number of vehicles used on a daily basis is....well at the moment we have no way of knowing.