Comments for article

Rupert Walthumstow

Another big issue for Guernsey to deal with.

Why can people not just be responsible, pick up their dog mess, keep their dogs under control, and then we wouldn't have all this ridiculous posturing and time wasting.

(This doesn't just apply to dog activities, just not being stupid / inconsiderate would save a lot of money, time and effort for everyone.)

Devil's Advocate

Good post Rupert!

Roger Irrelevant

Looks like the work of graffiti artist Les Banquesy.

Jasperino

RI

Clever, like it. Your on my planet

DogStu

These new signs, and I stress new signs, are causing problems. I have walked my dogs in this park for years and until recently I have never seen the signs. I have entered the park at different entrances at different times and there have never been signs. I have checked the legislation and the signs contradict the legislation. Dog fouling is a constant problem but I do not think it has ever been a problem at Delancy. I do understand that dogs are not and should not be in the children's play area and the signage should reflect that. Dogs need to be exercised and this is a perfect area for this. It is a public recreation area where all can use the space, dog walkers as well. I wonder if the Parish Constable is as worried about people cycling on the path around the park? If you were to check the legislation it is also an offence but if the cyclist are as responsible as the dog walkers the space can be used by all. I will continue to exercise my dog at the park, the dog will be off the lead and will only go on the lead if I think it requires it.

Guernbloke

The path was put in specifically to encourage people to cycle in the park and is used regularly for racing.

So why would the parish constable be worried about people using it for the very purpose it was put there?

Check the Velo Club website if you want to confirm this.

Yes, dog walkers can use it, but not everyone likes dogs, which is why they should be kept on a lead.

Guernseyman

Control of Dogs Ordinance 1992

Dogs are banned from the following areas at all times:

Specified public sports and playing fields unless the dog is on a lead and under close supervision:

Delancey Park

Beau Sejour Park

Cambridge Park

Victoria Avenue

Saumarez Park

L’Ancresse Common

Rovers Playing field at Port Soif.

La Vallette Bathing Pools

Dogs must also be kept on a lead and under close supervision in certain areas of St

Peter Port and St Sampson.

.

Devil's Advocate

"Well behaved dogs welcome" - given the recent incident of a highly trained police dog not obeying its handler and mangling a chap's arm, I consider there to be no such thing as a 'well behaved dog' and they can cause trouble at any moment. thus they should be on leads where the owner can control them.

FUB

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cows-officially-the-most-deadly-large-animals-in-britain-a6727266.html

We also have a lot of cows in Guernsey.

guern abroad

Cows are kept on private property or contained when on public land. Dogs are often not contained on public land and are therefore always a potential risk.

None local,local

@ Devils

If you care to meet me and my dog, I will show you a well behaved dog and then your mentality might change.

What a ridiculous post

Beanjar

I think yours is the ridiculous post. How many people have been killed by dogs whose owners said "wouldn't hurt a fly", let alone injured or traumatized?

None local,local

Now you are being ridiculous, so all dogs are killers

You can join devil and I can show you what a killer my dog is

2 ridiculous posts

Guernbloke

See arjay's intelligent post below. Dog owners are blind to the fact that their 'well behaved dog' scares children, and some adults, by their 'friendly' behaviour. Nothing worse than being jumped at by a 'friendly' dog when you are little. Dogs must stay on leads in public.

None local,local

Not all dogs are the same, join the gang for the meet and greet to see my killer dog

Got to say the are a few humans that are scary than some dogs

Until you see my dog and see have friendly and none jumpy she is, DONT tie my dog to the same brush

And not all owners are blind and all children are not scared, until you are a dog owner you have no idea and it's some of the none dog owners are the blind ones

Beanjar

Obviously, literacy is not your strong suit, but that is no excuse for lying about what other posters have written. I don't know whether or not your dog is agressive, but we would probably get more sensible comments from it than we do from you.

Devil's Advocate

N L, L, your dog may ordinarily be well-behaved, but is it well behaved when it gets stung by a bee? Is it well-behaved when it has a tooth absess? Is it well behaved when a small child accidentally pokes a stick down it's throat?

PLP

Not entirely ridiculous. Although I don't currently have a dog I have lived in a house with one most of my life and will regularly pat and say hello to a friendly dog as I'm walking to work.

I agree that most "well behaved dogs" generally don't cause trouble, even so they are animals and like all animals there is always the risk that they may act out of normal character. Owners who are so blinkered that they won't even acknowledge the possibility - no matter how slight - that their beloved dog might turn on someone are the most worrying of all.

Devil's Advocate

Exactly.

rine111

Absolutely right. Some dogs are reliable but others are not. In a public place dogs should be on a lead.

Dog owners will say 'Where can my dog run?'. Perhaps they should have thought of that before they got the dog.

Jeff

Or perhaps the dog owners think they need to comply with the actual law, rather than be ruled by the preferences of anonymous strangers on This is Guernsey.

There is a list of places dogs are excluded from, and a list of places where they have to be on a lead. "All public places" isn't on the list.

arjay

We had a boxer dog once who we exercised daily on Delancey Park.

A lovable pet who adored children.

We soon had to put him on a lead though. Why?

Because to a young child, there is nothing more frightening than to have a strange dog bounding up wanting to play or be petted.

Particularly in cases where a child is not used to dogs and where the dog looks frightening.

All dogs on leads on the Park must be de rigueur, I'm afraid. Especially when there are loose children about!

GOLFER

The Rules for Sausmarez, Delancey and Cambridge Parks are the same, dogs kept on a lead. Parks, Children, Balls how many times Dog Owners have called their Dog who takes no notice then either knocked over my child or ran off with the ball I stopped counting, the ball is usually returned full of Dog Saliva.

I have witnessed a large dog off its lead foul the Football Pitch at Cambridge Park with a match due the next day, imagine a slide tackle into that not pleasant, the reason for rules no excuse not to see your dogs mess. Many years ago we had Park Keepers to Patrol and insure the Park was usable for everyone in the right manner. As for cycling in the Park the sign at Sausmarez stated under 12,s only may cycle, maybe as many people also walk the Park, but again Adults cycle with their children as no one to monitor the Parks.

FUB

Whatever happened to white dog poo?

Island Wide Voting

Apparently MarkB goes out in the late evening collecting it to put on his spuds

markB

No!! its horse poo I like on my spuds, not dog poo.

Scotslady

Could not agree more, Golfer, and with many other comments. The bottom line is there is no one to enforce the rules, therefore many selfish & inconsiderate people push the boundaries, as of course they feel they are the "exception" to the rule & can get away with it.

Dog owners should understand once and for all that NOBODY (except other dog owners) wants other people's dogs running free - they should be on a lead at all times, anywhere. Let them run free in their own gardens, and if they don't have a garden then they shouldn't have a dog. All this talk of special times, etc is naieve, as those rules will be abused as well.

I like well-behaved dogs (down to the training from the dog owners) ON A LEAD. I do not want "friendly" dogs invading my personal space, let alone sniffing, salivating, barking, growling or jumping up at me.

It's exactly the same with selfish & inconsiderate cyclists - the rules apparently don't apply to them either.

PLP

Unless you can provide evidence to support such a comprehensive claim, I'm not sure you can come on here and categorically state that nobody except dog owners is happy with dogs running off leads anywhere full stop.

I'm also wondering what it is about you that causes cyclists to be sniffing, salivating, barking, growling or jumping up at you! ;-)

Scotslady

We're on the same side, PLP.

I can in fact "come on here and categorically state" anything I like, anytime - everybody else does. And nor do I need to "provide evidence".

Well done for spotting my error though - I had a good laugh at the visual! :-)

PLP

Scotslady

There is a difference between giving an opinion and making a statement of fact. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be put in the same category as those politicians who make "factual" statements that are proved wrong about 10 minutes later.

Glad you liked the visual though....look out for salivating cyclists! :-)

Beanjar

Scotslady sounds about right to me. Who wants themselves, let alone their kids, jumped up at, barked at, the occasional bite or humping incident etc.?

FUB

I'd like my personal space in a public park to be free from invasive sniffy, sticky fingered little kids and their ball games, kites and frisbees. I particular dont like the whistling balls they throw around, so disruptive and annoying.

I like well behaved kids playing in their designated areas usually with the swings, slides and climbing frames.

Parents should be made to let them run free in their own gardens and if they dont have a garden they shouldnt have a children.

But then again Im a sharing caring person who realises that we dont all have huge wide open spaces that we can keep to ourselves and that we all have to share with each other and not to the exclusion of others, especially cyclists who already get a ahrd enough time sharing the roads on which they are entitled to use.

Scotslady

FUB,

Poor old cyclists! If they behaved themselves better and obeyed the highway code they wouldn't get so much stick. I think they should have a registration number so when they are causing a problem they can be reported.

And regarding dogs, it's the owners who are at fault. It's not the children, it's their parents who have no consideration for the rest of the public. They should control their children.

That's why rules have to be enforced - you cannot rely on most of the public to police themselves. This is a statement of fact, as well as an opinion.

Rupert Walthumstow

Scotslady, there are far more car / van / lorry drivers doing dangerous and illegal things every day than cyclists whose offences often only cause danger to themselves and minor inconvenience to others. And moving slowly in comparison to a car on a road is not illegal remember!

Do you report every car driver you see texting, on their phone, speeding, not paying attention, stopping at places that are clearly unsafe, etc?

If not, perhaps you should? And if not, what makes you think you would suddenly start if you could for cyclists? If you would for cyclists but not for cars I think the problem is more yours than the cyclist's.

In the interests of openness, I am an irregular cyclist but more frequent driver.

FUB

Scotslady,

What is your extremely broad brush opinion on cat owners and the deposits left by their cats? How would you suggest I report them?

For openness I am generally a law abiding safe cyclist, also generally a law abiding safe driver but not a pet owner.

Scotslady

I knew my comments would bring out the protectionist instincts of the cylists!!

RW I agree with you regarding wrong doing by car, van & lorry drivers. The point is ALL road users including cyclists should have vehicle registration, so that it is a LEVEL playing field. Then those who wish to can report wrongdoing equally. Cyclists should definitely not be exempt.

This is supposed to be about vandalism. However, there are so many other related issues, the root cause of which is mainly the lack of consideration from the public generally to the rest of the public on ALL the issues raised.

As I say repeatedly, rules need to be enforced as you cannot rely on a large proportion of the public to police themselves (myself excluded). As the Police cannot cope with this, then all the public should take up reporting wrongdoing. Once wrongdoers realize that they run the risk of being reported by others, then the incidences of wrong doing would drop exponentially. It is only the knowledge that they can get away with it that allows wrongdoers to carry on. All of us need to take responsibility and report wrongdoing if we want any improvement in the behaviour of others.

I know some may call this "Big Brother", but seen positively, others would call it "Community Support" or taking action to improve the situation for all.

Either that, or we will all have to put up with bad behaviour, as it won't stop by itself, indeed it will only get worse, and anarchy will rule.

Rupert Walthumstow

So do you report all cars that you see breaking the law presently? Or do you not bother as it's not a level playing field?

asdfgn

Yes the park is there for all to use but it is primarily there for the enjoyment of people, not animals. If you can bring your dog there without impacting other people that's fine, but dog owners need to realise that their dog doesn't matter to everyone else. It's an animal, it's your responsibility, control it; if that means it has a less enjoyable life, that's just something you need to come to terms with. I like dogs but I don't expect anyone else to make sacrifices for my own pets.

PLP

Good post, although I reckon with a bit of thought there are sufficient places and times to allow people to exercise their dogs off a lead without causing any hassle whilst the rest of the public can enjoy public spaces without having to worry about an over-excited pooch.

It occurs to me that when the authorities thought up the rules, they only took location into account and not times of the day. For example, quite a few owners walk their dogs at the beginning / end of the day....and even during the summer months it would be unusual to see children at the parks / beaches before 10am in the morning and after 8pm at night.

As a thought, why not allow dog owners to exercise their dogs off the lead at those times and then impose the normal restrictions during the day? That way, everyone gets to enjoy the public spaces.

Jasperino

We used to have a dog that always used to chase the postman on his bike. Things got so bad that we had to take the bike away from the dog.

Rosie112

Dogs being walked off leads has always created problems in numerous different areas. I have 3 large dogs who I know to small children and some adults can be a frightening, if I'm walking in parks I will make sure I only let off the dogs who have a really good recall and who when called will come running straight back. We as owners need to be responsible for our own actions and if one of mine was to knock over a little child I would be mortified! I am also one of those people who say, my dogs are friendly etc. however, I have witnessed first hand a happy friendly dog turn sour as you never know when your dog may change. Any dog and any breed when placed in a certain situation may react differently to normal. I think dog owners also need to be aware that certain breeds do hold a 'label' and as horrid as that sounds those dogs to certain people are thought to be fighting dogs, we need to get over this. it will always be like this and some people will never change. Just act responsibly and continue with your walks etc, don't make a scene and cause unnecessary arguments, I'm fed up of reading on social media about 'my dog this my dog that' okay you know you dog that's fine, but not all dogs might be like yours and you need to understand that. I think Guernsey would benefit from a dog ban like Jersey currently has so that dog walkers can walk off lead before 10am and after 8pm at night. and between those times if you are on a beach or in a park etc your dog needs to be lead walked. You will never stop some people leaving dog waste behind but please if you are a dog walker or happen to carry a poo bag just bag it and bin it. Lets try and build a better name for us dog walkers!

Jasperino

With all the motor fuel tax levies being thrust upon us how about a dog turd tax. The bigger/wider dog paying more than the smaller eco friendlier dogs paying less tax for the smaller end product.

Mark

I don't know that the size of the turd is relative to the size of the dog. Some little dogs seem to leave piles that have you scratching your head as to where they hide it all.

Rupert Walthumstow

Can we also make it law that horses must either be picked up after or wear some sort of nappy as frankly it is disgusting walking through some lanes / paths after horses have been through.

Also ban horses from the roads during rush hours. Saw two ladies trotting around St Martins at 5.45pm the other day causing chaos and then unsurprisingly one of the horses was a bit spooked and she was struggling to control it. A bit of common sense would have avoided the issue but in the absence of that it needs to become law.

Beanjar

I don't enjoy dodging excrement of any calibre but, if I had to choose, I would walk in horses' every time - at least they are vegetarians.

When Clint Eastward became mayor of Carmel, CA he made all the horses wear nappies - not sure how it worked out though.

GOLFER

Brilliant post Jasperino, any Deputy reading will now take this forward to a public consultation, completely ignore the publics opinion and do what they wanted in the first place.

pixie22

It never ceases to amaze me, the level of vitriol directed at the dog population ( and their owners) every time even the most tenuous links to them are made in the media.

It seems to have been conveniently overlooked that This article wasn't about dogs it was about VANDALISM, another form of anti social behavior, yet this has been conveniently ignored and turned into yet another anti dog rant.

Public spaces are exactly that, there for the enjoyment of all and no one social group has a greater right to it than any other. Designated times for dogs to be exercised off lead in public parks would enable those who did not wish to encounter them to know when to avoid the area and allow dog owners to mix with like minded people and more importantly their dogs would have the exercise and the social interaction with other dogs that they need (as a pack animal) to make them happy and well rounded.

Guernseys parks and beaches are not festooned in dog faeces nor are there regular instances of violent dog attacks ( even on each other). The size of a dog is no marker as to its "danger' factor and it is no less unpleasant to step in a small "offering" than a large one (easier to spot!)

I for one have ceased to attempt to defend my dog or my ownership of him. It isn't illegal or immoral to own one and until it is I shall continue to enjoy the pleasure his companionship affords me.

Beanjar

And who do you think carried out the VANDALISM, then? Take a bow the ever-considerate, oh-so-responsible, dog owners. People like you, who think their animals should have more rights than taxpayers who want to enjoy their parks

pixie22

Try reading the post again Beanjar "no one sector of society has any more right to it than another" was actually the quote. As I wasn't there to witness the vandalism, I have, unlike yourself refrained from making any assumptions. Not quite sure why you are now alleging that dog owners in addition to having the temerity to own and flaunt your most hated species in public are apparently also guilty of tax evasion. You really are a complete pillock!!

Guernzee

Well said pixie, especially the pillock comment as it sums up the constant whining rubbish this bitter person keeps spouting. There is no reasoning with him on dogs, he has his own opinion and firmly believes it is correct irrespective of what anyone else says!

Beanjar

Oh, so you didn't see who vandalised the signs by scrawling ‘well behaved dogs welcome!’ and ‘No petty parish posturing in our park’? I'm 99% sure that was an extremist dog owner, but you can believe what you want. If they had said 'all unaccompanied dogs will be shot'. I would be fairly confident it was somebody who didn't like dogs. Don't go into detective work, you two blinkered idiots.

Scotslady

I agree that those who post on this site should not make rude personal comments about others. (e.g. pillock) It's not a good look, and it undermines your post.

The fact remains there are a huge number of dog-owners who abuse the rules, we have all seen it time and time again. In all public areas, dogs should be walked on leads.

But it's not only dog owners who abuse rules - my point is that whatever the rules happen to be, there are always people abusing them. We all need to do something about that or it will only get worse.

FUB

Yourself excluded? Does that then make you the exception to the rule, selfish and inconsiderate as per your posts?

So do you report all people that you see breaking the law presently? Or do you not bother as it's not a level playing field?

Jeff

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment, Scotslady, but it is not a rule that dogs should be on leads in all public areas.

It would be ludicrous to have a law about leads that applies even when I'm walking my dog on a deserted Belgrave beach on a dark and stormy November evening.

Guernseyman

Control of Dogs Ordinance 1992

Dogs are banned from the following areas at all times:

Specified public sports and playing fields unless the dog is on a lead and under close supervision:

Delancey Park

Beau Sejour Park

Cambridge Park

Victoria Avenue

Saumarez Park

L’Ancresse Common

Rovers Playing field at Port Soif.

La Vallette Bathing Pools

Dogs must also be kept on a lead and under close supervision in certain areas of St

Peter Port and St Sampson.

GOLFER

Guernseyman has it this is a law which covers all playing fields owned by the States, so also Les Brehauts playing fields, Osmond Priaulx Memorial playing fields and Slyvans, not sure who owns the poo minefield at the Le Gruet. We have a dog but it's about showing a little respect for other people.

Scotslady

This is my last post on this topic - clearly a big issue as there is now 59 posts altogether. Have a look on the States website under "Responsible Dog Owners" which I quote from:

"Owners are responsible for the actions of their dog in a public place whether it is on or off a lead. Owners who cannot GUARANTEE that their dog will not threaten people, other dogs, livestock or horses/riders should KEEP THEIR DOG ON A LEAD, possibly muzzled and under close supervision at all times".

It is worth noting the fact that 39% of people (with or without dogs) have been threatened by other dogs. There are also suggestions of how to report bad dog-owner behaviour on the States website.

No-one has yet mentioned the restriction of dogs on beaches either, which I have seen abused many times. As the Dogs Control Ordinance was issued in 1992, a quarter of a century ago, I think it is high time the rules were tightened up. After all, there are more people in Guernsey now, certainly more dogs, and a lot less consideration for others.

The rules for cyclists should also be tightened up.

FUB

What about the rules for vandalism?

Im still waiting to find out if you report all the people that you see breaking the law presently? Or do you not bother as it's not a level playing field?

Beanjar

And not just tighten up the rules, they should actually get off their backsides and prosecute a few of the slobs who ignore them.