Alderney cries foul over deal to buy roller

AN ALDERNEY States member ‘gazumped’ his own committee when purchasing a vibrating roller and dumper for £3,500, it has been claimed.

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Ian Tugby, pictured, a member of Estates and Services, bought the equipment for his company despite his committee making an offer of £2,500 for it.

Chairman Louis Jean has criticised Mr Tugby for buying the machinery and questions have been raised over whether the States member used privileged information to buy the two items.

Mr Jean believed he had solved the situation when he got Mr Tugby to agree to sell the machines to the States of Alderney during the committee’s December meeting.

But Mr Tugby said in light of the media coverage since, he did not know whether he would sell.

Mr Jean said he believed Mr Tugby was wrong to buy the equipment.

‘He gazumped his own committee – he took something that we were trying to purchase for the good of the community.’

Mr Tugby, who owns a contracting company, denied that he had got one over the committee.

Comments for: "Alderney cries foul over deal to buy roller"

markB

sounds like the States of Guernsey in the good old days.

Dan

If the States of Alderney wanted the roller they should have put in a better offer, they come across as a bunch of sore losers. Get over it and find a new roller.

Rich AY

What's the problem? The initial owner could have gone back to the states and said he had received a significantly higher offer, and asked whether they were going make a higher one. He clearly didn't because he felt the offer that Tugby made was a good one. It must be hard when you become a states member on Alderney and try to give a bit back to the community, as it may also appear that there is a conflict of interest. Business is Buisiness after all.

No1 native

Never let the truth get in the way of a good rumour. There are always two sides to a story and I suggest that the Guernsey Press do their homework.

Del Boy Trotter

A classic local political scenario. Business may be business but when you are elected by the community to serve the community you shouldn't shaft the community for your own personal commercial advantage.

If Mr Tugby is at all honorable he will offer the equipment to the States for £2,500, and suffer the loss for his obvious personal greed and gain. Alternatively the Alderney electorate will decide his fate at the next ballot box. "Vive la democracy!"

insider

The problem is Dan is people are asking if he used knowledge of how much the States bid to influence how much he bid.

TAFF

What a nonsense. The States decided it was worth £2,500 and bid for it. Bid rejected. No further bid made. Mr Tugby thought it was worth more so made a higher bid. And got it. Well done Mr Tugby.

And what difference if he knew how much the States had bid? They were not prepared to bid more, but he was.

Have any of you ever been involved in such bids? The owners will often say that a bid of £xxx was not good enough. Hoping you will bid more. It is a well known commercial practise.

haemorhoid

£2500 for a vibrating roller AND a dumper? For that sort of money you're buying something that's nearly ready for the scrap-heap, or for Mr T's interesting collection of agricultural and industrial relics that are so tastefully arranged in the green belt. Why were the States looking to buy such rubbish? It seems like they were fortunate in being outbid and will now have to look for something a bit more sensibly priced and in better condition.

islander

Seems to be easier to run to the press and cause a fuss than to work together and solve a dispute/problem.

For what it's worth (probably not much as everyone seems to be more inclined to believe a tabloid rumour than truth) Mr Tugby didn't do anything wrong. The States were not going to cough up the cash for the roller, so to save it from being sold off island Mr Tugby offered what the seller wanted. It will now be available to use for the island. The insinuation that he "gazumped" the States and prevented the island from benefitting from it's use is utter nonsense: if he hadn't stepped in and bought it then it would have been sold elsewhere as the States were being greedy and trying to knock the price down way too far for for the seller.

What's bad for the island is certain States members running to the press (or in this case getting someone else to run tot he press as they aren't directly involved) to try and get their own way, instead of trying to work with their colleagues to benefit the island. It's detrimental to Alderney to have this media coverage every time "Mr A" doesn't get what he wants.

billy

Sorry but Mr Tugby is one of the most obvious members that are out for themselves. Of course it was a conflict of interest! Speak to the seller. Read minutes of meetings too. I've lost count of the amount of times he has been quoted as saying his firm could do things cheaper than the states have had prices for. You are either for yourself or the States on this matter. We know which now.

islander

If you read the minutes, you'll also see that Mr Tugby advised the States that their bid was too low and that they should increase it (which they ignored). Does that sound like he had his own interests in mind? No, it doesn't. He also excuses himself when conflicts of interest arise (if you read the minutes)...

billy

Must apologise there. I was refering to the minutes of meetings going many years back. They don't seem available anymore on the States New website. I must disagree with you though. He sometimes excuses himself, when he wants to. There are many instances where he not excused himself even though the outcome of the voting could directly benefit his firm. This is what the minutes clearly showed. (When I read the minutes)

Haemorhoid

Well spotted Islander. In order to be properly informed and not a silly "Billy" I have now read the minutes. Here's an extract from November's ESC meeting minutes, taken from the States website.

.

"The Chairman queried the purchase of the vibrating roller and dumper being unsuccessful; the States Engineer advised that the States’ tender was not accepted for the Vibrating Roller however it is understood to still be on island.

Mr Tugby advised that he has bought the roller. He stated that, as he advised at the previous meeting, he had previously made an offer to the seller and that he believed that the States would be unsuccessful with their bid as the offer was too low.

The Chairman queried whether Mr Tugby offered more money than the States had and Mr Tugby advised that his initial offer was made before the States made an offer. He further advised that the seller approached him following the bid made by the States and queried if he was still interested in buying the roller and he paid the asking price.

The Chairman stated that he was disappointed with the outcome of the matter and that the States will continue to be in a situation where they have to continue to hire in equipment.

Mr Arditti queried with Mr Tugby whether he felt that he used privileged information from this Committee to purchase the Roller; Mr Tugby advised that he did not feel that was the case as the seller approached him following the unsuccessful bid from the States and knowing that he had previously made an offer for the equipment. Mr Arditti disagreed with Mr Tugby on his statement."

Seems like Mr Tugby has no case to answer and this is yet another piece of nasty mischief from Messrs Arditti and Jean.

billy

Well copy and pasted there. As I said I was refering to many sets of minutes from years gone by.

Haemorhoid

Billy, If you are so sure that there are "many sets of minutes" that show some impropriety by Mr Tugby, why don't you copy and paste some examples here?

billy

Because as I said above they don't appear to available on the states website anymore.

Haemorhoid

There are 3 years worth on there. If Mr Tugby is so "out for himself" as you are implying, there must be something? No?

If you cannot substantiate your allegations, you shouldn't make them. I suspect that your allegations are malicious and without substance, just like those of Jean and Arditti.

alderney settler

Well said settler and haemeroid- evil flourishes when good men do nothing . and we know exactly who we are talking about here,its my opinion that Alderney states representatives should be elected by the states so that they represent the views of the states, it seems ridiculous that two members of our states can go off on their own agenda without being answerable , it was OK when you had honorable men but sadly this does not appear to be the case now.

billy

"Alegations are malicious and without substance, just like those of Jean and Arditti." You are joking are you not? Have you even been to any States meetings since this fall out started. If you had you would have seen quite the opposite. It is not my fault that the minutes are no longer avaiable.

Haemorhoid

No longer available, or never existed? The minutes prior to January 2011 are no longer available on the website but are available at the States office. If you really believed you were right, you'd go and look for them. Or is it a case of "Never let the truth get in the way of a good rumour"?

So far you have provided no evidence to support your allegations. The above minutes, which can be read by anyone, support the opposite view.

billy

Why would I go & look for them? I've read them.

Haemorhoid

You can claim all you like to have read them but the people you are trying to convince by posting here haven't. Unless you are willing to provide proof of your allegations of impropriety. I think you should withdraw your earlier comments and post an apology to Ian Tugby.

billy

I dont think so. Maybe you should read them then? I've read them, I've told you, if you don't like it thats not my problem. You are the one getting offended by it and as you said they are avaiable from the states office so if you want proof go and get them. I don't need to read them again. Or, you could actually remember what this artical is about in the first place, i,e, using privaliged imformation. Didnt like it did he when challenged. Stormed out. Threw his toys out. Surley Mr Tugby knew he was interested in the roller? Maybe he should've declared an interest and not attended?

alderney settler

Billy with the greatest will in the world i cant beleive that anyone could call Ian Tugby either a self seeking politician or someone that does deliberately dishonest things, this was yet another leek by PA to discredit a states member over whats really a very trivial matter, yes it could have been handled better, but if the amount had been £100 more than the states offer i could understand all the fuss-but the states were not even in the ball park with their offer,please look at the bigger picture here , each and every issue of the Alderney press PA and his accomplice manage to character assassinate one of the the 8 members that are working together to HELP Alderney, this needs to stop.

Haemorhoid

" Or, you could actually remember what this artical is about in the first place, i,e, using privaliged imformation."

Billy, Please READ the minutes extract above. Tugby had already made a bid on the equipment, before the States made their offer. how can that be construed as using privileged information? He knew the equipment was for sale prior to the meeting. He knew what the seller was asking for it. He paid the asking price, AFTER the derisory offer from the States was declined. Nothing wrong in any of that. It's a clear case of political smearing by Jean and Arditti.

Bill Walden

Prior to December 2012, I was Chairman of General Services Committee for six consecutive years. I can honestly say that in that time I do not recall any occasion on which Ian Tugby used privileged information. There were, of course, occasions when I asked Ian to leave the meeting to avoid a conflict of interest and he always complied with those requests.

billy

Ok. I have read a few minutes, quite random believe it or not of Policy and Finance dated 4th April 2012. Heres a few transcipts.

If any Member felt that an interest was not declared by another Member then this should be reported to the President. The Chairman further stated it was up to members to vote according to their conscience and it was not up to other members to instruct them on whether they were conflicted or not.

Low and behold a few items later....

Item 22.3 School Bus Contract , resolution amended as follows:

RESOLVED unanimously to agree to accept the quotation from Riduna Buses, for a period of 3 years.

Now maybe its just me but Mr Tugby didn't excuse himself from this discussion even though he is the bus drivers friend and employer. That alone would be reason enough to excuse himself. Nevermind the fact that the bus is repaired in Mr Tugbys workshop. I certainty hope no money is being charged for that. But before you study these minutes and tear me apart for whatever remember that these are as recent as 2012 and I have't even tried in detail to look at anymore, nevermind go and collect minutes from 10 years or so ago.

billy

Thanks for commenting Bill. It's a shame that you had to ask him to leave. Personally I think he should't have had to be asked but there we are. I remember a few commenting that the "dead wood" had been removed when a few of you lost your seats. Was always a load of rubbish in your case but dear me how allot of people must be regretting that now. Benidorm will be at least one thing where you can say "I told you so!"

Bill Walden

Billy. Thank you for your kind comment. One man's dead wood, is another man's seasoned timber.

I should add that in addition to the times when I asked Ian to leave the meetings, there were also times when he left without being asked. It is the Chairman's responsibility to run the meeting according to the Rules of Procedure and to point out to members where he (or she) thinks a conflict of interest may arise.

Haemorhoid

I know this thread is getting a bit old but, Billy, the draft minutes of the December 2013 General services meeting are now up on the States website. They make interesting reading and give an insight into how the Jean and Arditti double act work.

Vibrating Roller and Dumper

The Chairman queried whether Mr Tugby would be willing to sell the vibrating roller to the States Works Department (SWD) at the price he purchased it from the seller and Mr Tugby agreed on the understanding that an agreement be drawn up to allow for the roller to be hired back to him on occasion. The States Engineer advised that the financial approvals would have to be reviewed to ensure sufficient funding was approved to purchase the roller at the revised price of £3.5K, the offer from SWD having been £2.5K, as well as required refurbishment works. The Treasurer advised that the capital amount budgeted was £10K, and required T&R approval only.

Mr Rowley stated that he believed the manner in which this item had been dealt with at the previous meeting was not appropriate as Mr Arditti is not a Member of the Committee and was making accusations towards Mr Tugby. The Chairman explained that within the rules of procedure, the Chairman may invite a non committee member to speak and on that occasion he did.

Mr Tugby stated that Mr Arditti didn’t believe him when he made a statement that he had bought the roller therefore insinuating that he was being untruthful. The Chairman allowed Mr Arditti to make commeMr Arditti stated that he had disagreed with Mr Tugby’s opinion as he believed it to be incorrect and queried with Mr Rowley how he considered the matter would have been raised had he not asked questions. Mr Rowley stated that the Chairman should have queried the matter with Mr Tugby and not Mr Arditti as a non committee Member. The Chairman disagreed with Mr Rowley and stated that he did query the matter with Mr Tugby. Mr Tugby requested that the minutes reflect that he paid £3.5K for the roller following the unsuccessful bid of £2.5K by SWD.

Mr Berry stated that in his time as a States Member on this Committee, Mr Tugby has never done anything untoward and have always been open with the Committee and declared his interest if a situation arose where his business had been involved.

Following further discussion amongst Members, the Chairman called the matter to a close

billy

They asked questions. A small example of how Tugby operates is posted above too.