Education defends Islam homework

EDUCATION has defended a decision to set homework that asked pupils to write a letter to their family explaining why they had converted to Islam.

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A parent complained on social media when the RE homework was given to 12 and 13-year-olds at Les Beaucamps and students were asked to say how they were feeling, how becoming Muslim had changed their life for the better and how much they loved their family.

The post attracted more critical comments questioning the appropriateness of the task.

‘The Guernsey agreed syllabus for religious education includes a structured framework for ensuring that Christianity and the other five principal religions (Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Sikhism) are studied with sufficient depth and breadth throughout the four Key Stages,’ an Education spokesman said.

‘It is important that our students are able to learn about, understand, investigate and question all that is around them. As with all subjects, homework will be set to cover all areas of the curriculum.’

The department said that the parent who had complained on Facebook had contacted the school, had the context explained, and was now happy.

Comments for: "Education defends Islam homework"

markB

I suppose its a good thing to learn about different faiths so individuals can either take up their own chosen faith or decide they are all a load of tosh , maybe they should also teach what taking up such faiths could entail, especially for young women and boys.

PLP

At least they didn't have to research what happens to people in many countries who leave Islam and either converted to another religion or abandon faith altogether.

It would've given the more sensitive ones nightmares.

SwitchTrix

RE is such a waste of resources IMO, can't believe I was forced to endure it for 3 years.

Trevor Hockey

SwitchTrix

I agree, one of my most disliked subjects and having religion shoved down my throat has probably contributed to my atheist views today.

Religion, the cause of more wars than anything else, Christian killing Christian, Muslim killing Muslim and still going on today.!

futulas_dog

That's it, sanity has LEFT THE BUILDING….!

Good grief, are there not better ways to learn about religion…?!!!!

I learned about ALL of them, which I am grateful for, because I was then able to reject all of them as total tosh and brainwashing for the masses….pardon the pun, witch burning catholics…!

2016 Deputy

What about the athiests ???

Xenomorph

We don't need RE homework.

John West

The rest of the syllabus covers atheism quite well it seems.

Beanjar

I guess that was for Christian pupils. Presumably they asked the Muslims to explain why they were converting to Christianity or Judaism? Like hell they did!

PLP

Have a read about apostasy in Islam and you'll quickly realise why they didn't......

John West

The teachers soon got the chop... quite literally.

milly,snr

teach pupils about religion by all means but be very careful when you ask then to be a Muslim,in this day and age when easily led youngsters are being radicalized it is a dangerous road to be taking. the idiot who thought this one up is not fit to be at the school or in education. the amount of youngsters heading to Syria without their parents knowing must ring warning bells about how easily led they can be.

asdfgn

You say this as though writing a letter advocating a different view would push people to not only join the religion, but then to become radicalised, on Guernsey of all places. Even if writing one letter did convince them to change their beliefs how can you think its reasonable to suggest that they would subsequently become radicals? If this is the case then I suppose we should prevent anyone learning about Christianity, just in case they join the LRA?

lancastrian14

What you, nor I suspect the teachers that set the homework, may not realise is exactly what joining Islam entails. A central tenet of Islam is Sharia law about which the ECHR said the following:

Noting that the Welfare Party had pledged to set up a regime based on sharia law, the Court found that sharia was incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy as set forth in the Convention. It considered that “sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it”. According to the Court, it was difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverged from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervened in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts.

Those are strong words and I wonder how many parents would want their children to join something described in such terms?

Vivica

Does this really matter? It's a thought experiment... If you're worried about your kid being influenced by it maybe you just need to do a better job as a parent!

milly,snr

vivica, my children are adults now and are law abiding, but there are numerous accounts of children from very good homes that are led astray by gangs who prey on them and use them for drug running and things, and I'm sure you would have read of young adults that have secretly traveled to join the the thuggish butchers that are known as I.S. all i am saying is be wary of what you are teaching them as some will not know the motive behind the lesson.

asdfgn

They're not teaching them about Jihad or the Koran passages ISIS has misinterpreted, Islam is not so different to Christianity at its roots. Becoming a Muslim doesn't mean joining ISIS, in the same way that becoming a Hindu doesn't mean you will join the Tamil Tigers. If they learn about another religion and choose to join it that's fine, there is no risk in more people becoming Muslim. At least this way the students will be evaluating the beliefs of the religion rather than being indoctrinated into it as is the way currently.

Beanjar

So that's what's in the RE lessons at Les Beaucamps, I wonder if they get this guff at the Grammar?

Xenomorph

Of course they do - all high schools on the same curriculum.

As meaningless as RE is to the majority who don't need an imaginary friend, it's useful to be able to compare imaginary friend statistics - Top Trumps for gods...

Beanjar

Really? This particular exercise? That would surprise me. I don't have a problem with schools spending a limited amount of time discussing the characteristics of various 'imaginary friends'. After all, religion has a significant bearing on history, current affairs, general knowledge etc. But it should be totally impartial and not the current party line which is "we are fighting so much prejudice and Islamophobia in Guernsey!" Such as recently expressed by Le Tocq, and again on the radio just now by Rev. Linda le Vasseur.

Terry Langlois

the problem is Beanjar, the more you post on this subject, the more convinced I am that J Le Tocq was talking specifically about you

Swollocks

The point is it made them think about the subject - surely that is the point?

Sense

Let's just hope this doesn't hit main stream national papers as with JLT's comments about us.

That is unless they are now trying to prove that the islanders are islamphobes and that we embrace all religions!

I respect all faiths, sexualalities etc etc but if this was my child I would be telling them not to do the homework as I think this exercise is not appropriate. I do believe that children need to learn about all faiths just not is this way.

omnibus

If junior wants to go to Syria and join IS to kill infidel it would be a good first step.

liontamer

As if the kids are not brainwashed enough at school by the Liberal luvvies

Trevor Hockey

liontamer

I agree. Little Johnny now knows everything about religion but the schools are still churning out kids who cannot write legibly, whose spelling and punctuation is atrocious and who cannot fill out a tax return.

To much airy fairy and not enough practical everyday life.!

Interested Observer

Yea in my day blah blah blah...........

#gashtag

Education should be made to defend the point of RE full stop. Aside perhaps a lesson or two about different peoples imaginary friends, RE is useless.

Imaginary friend top trumps is the cause of too much grief in this world. If it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable.

#mygodisbetterthanyours

#nomineisbetterandhastoldmetoblowyouup

#joinourchurchfor10%ofyourincome

#wepreyonyourfears

Rokayne

Religion is everywhere - teaching the different religions, their history and different factions is essential to understand ourselves and how societies have been managed and still are and how it may be.

It is s type of philosophy in that it seeks to make sense of our existence although it is hijacked by people we wound consider extreme. But then isn't any subject? Evolution v creation? Modern supply of food methods (selective breeding to genetic engineering to chemicals simulating natural ingredients) v hunter gatherer methods.

Well taught it is essential - including the exploration of atheism - to the human psyche.

PLP

Good comment Rokayne. I wonder whether some people are basing their views on what RE looked like 30-40 years ago but things have changed dramatically since then and it's no longer an extension of church.

Religious education in state schools should be objective and deal with understanding different world religions and their impact on society. Even faith schools should teach about different religions - after all unless you go all monastic it's difficult to live in a bubble.

For those who question the value of religious education, I suggest you watch the international news. It's easy in places like Guernsey to think religion is a fading force but in the rest of the world it is far from it. In that sense it is absolutely right and proper in the 21st century that children are educated about different religions.

I actually think this assignment is fascinating and could be beneficial if approached correctly and taught well. The two largest religions in the world (Christianity and Islam) are both proselyting faiths who are seeking converts. Gaining an understanding and sense of empathy into the process of "conversion" could prove helpful for understanding how these belief systems work. Equally, I hope they also ditch the political correctness and teach the opposite side of what it is like for many people who have chosen to abandon Islam - and a bit of study into the less savoury aspects of the Qu'ran wouldn't go amiss and would help young people understand why people like ISIS are doing what they do.

At the end of the day, whether you like it or not understanding religion and the dynamics of belief is essential to understanding the world we live in.

GuernToTheDogs

Its a free society with freedom of speech, who cares if someone was offended. There is no right "not to be offended", what do these thick lefties not understand about that.

Religion is load of pants anyway. And Islam is particularly pants.

John West

The ironic thing about all this is that the media pushes and pushes the 'fact' that Islam teaches peace... quite honestly they clearly haven't read the Koran (I'm not talking a verse here and there either).

I'm not knocking the religion but let's stop feeding ourselves off the regurgitated tripe that we're fed and actually find out for ourselves what this, and other religions are fundamentally about. Look at what propaganda did to the Japanese in WWII, they were told that the Americans would come and rape and murder so it was better to take their own life.

When a religion is based on a man who thought nothing against robbing his own kin and after failed attempts deciding to brutally attack and murder on his nations holy day of Ramadan; you then start to learn a bit about why fundamentally this is not a religion of peace.

I think it’s good for children to be taught about other religions but this letter was bound to cause controversy due to the nature of talking about conversion, particularly in light of young people being radicalised in the West - it's a very emotive topic and really not a particularly clever move by the school/education.

Swollocks

So you've read the Koran yourself then JW?

John West

Yes, yes I have actually, have you?

I was given one by a Muslim friend and I have an electronic version on Dropbox which I can access on all of my electronic devices.

100% Donkey

Totally agree John - ridiculous !!

Douglas White

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

John West

Probably should quote the reference to book and chapter.

That chapter of Deuteronomy (20) is God's instruction to Israel on how to conduct Military Service.

In the Old Testament God used the Israelites as judgement upon certain cities, although giving warnings and displaying mercy beforehand such as Lot & Sodom & Gomorrah and Jonah and Nineveh.

For the Christian, the bible gives two instructions on which to base all biblical law which is:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him [lawyer that was trying to tempt Jesus], Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Douglas White

Or we could also just accept that both books can be interpreted in many ways to provide confirmation bias for the particular viewpoint of those using them for their own ends? The Franciscan Order use the same bible as those who subscribe to Prosperity theology.

Jake

Quite right Douglas White. I have always said we should judge the person not the religion they report to follow.

Flabergasted

I would not have a problem with this homework if it asked the child to investigate the Islam religion and then asked them to write a response on how they felt it would affect their lives (i.e. if they thought it would be better or worse).

What I think it totally wrong in this case is they are being asked to say how their lives would be improved by it. This automatically appears to make a presumption that Islam is better, which in my opinion it is not.

I also feel that RE does not have a place in modern schooling. If you wish to learn about religion you go to church (or your religions equivalent) and learn about it there. As stated previously on this thread, the standard of reading, writing and maths in a large number of young people today leaves an awful lot to be desired. These three things are fundamental to life in general and they are the three things that should be concentrated on.

Jake

The homework actually states:

Complete the letter you started or started planning in class to your family on how you are converting to Islam.

Include: How you're feeling, how becoming a Muslim has changed your life, how much you love your family and hope they can accept your choice.

There wasn't anything in there about improving their lives, I think the GP has got that quote wrong.

asdfgn

I can't believe people can be so narrow minded, a substantial number of people on earth are Muslim and it helps to know what they believe in and why.

How can people possibly argue that learning more about some people's most closely held beliefs could be a bad thing.

One of the best ways to understand a point of view is to construct an argument for it, the assignment was completely reasonable.

Beanjar

If RE Teachers want to teach aspects of Islam let them discuss why quite a lot of Muslim men consider it acceptable to have sex with children of other faiths. Might be useful for when the 'migrants' turn up here from elsewhere in Europe and Scandinavia.

asdfgn

While they're at it I'm sure they can cover the widespread child abuse in the catholic church.

Beanjar

I see .... you're heading off down the 'every religion is equally evil' track are you? I presume you'll be bringing up the Inquisition and the Nazis next?

Get real, this is happening now. It's on our doorstep but people with influence are doing their level best to import it here. People need to wise up and speak out whilst we still have a few shreds of freedom left.

asdfgn

The Nazis? Are you being serious? You do realise they weren't a religious organisation right?

And yes I am heading off in that direction because its very relevant to the discussion, many people associate Islam with terrorism yet conveniently neglect to mention the Tamil Tigers (Hindu), LRA (Christian), Israeli ethnic cleansing in Palestine (Jewish), or the fact that the majority of terrorism is associated with separatist movements and not religion.

"This is happening now. Its on our doorstep" Yes of course, because this has actually happened near us? Oh wait, no it hasn't! The nearest incident was in Paris, a different country entirely, which occurred for reasons that are not applicable to Guernsey (Air strikes against IS).

But of course, the fear mongers among us will wilfully ignore the fact that deaths due to terrorism are minute in comparison to other crime, or that it's completely illogical to assume it will happen in Guernsey of all places. Not to forget that we are talking about a school homework exercise that had the aim of educating children about alternative view points, namely that of Islam, and not IS. Muslims are not automatically members of IS, IS is a radical group that Muslims in Europe have spoke out against, and that Muslims in the middle east are currently fighting against. Children learning about other people's religion will not cause IS to become active in Guernsey, I can't believe that even needed to be said, perhaps our Chief Ministers comments were closer to the truth than I realised.

bcb

"the majority of terrorism is associated with separatist movements and not religion"

Try telling that to the millions of women in some muslim countries unless you think terrorism only means blowing people up.

Not a fan of Mehdi Hasan by any chance are you?

Res1gned

Asdfgn

I assume you believe in religion, but it leaves you on sticky ground, because religion is like communism. Unbeatable in theory, defective in practice.

IS is a branch of Islam that cannot be denied

Nazi's although not a religious organisation was supported by the Roman Catholic Church who gave blessing to the German soldiers (and the allies) before they went into battle.

Fire getting the commandment " thou shalt not kill "

I will read your reply but will say no more on this subject except the Ideal of religion.is good in theory but falls flat as soon as people becone invokved

Jake

Well said asdfgn.

Res1gned,

If you consider IS to be a branch of Islam, do you consider Islam to be a branch of Christianity?

Insider

And of course this island has no islamophobia problem................

Beanjar

Nor does Sweden, do you really not know what is happening outside of Guernsey? try this: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/

Res1gned

Insider

I know you are trying to be sarcastic but I agree this island has not got an islamaphobic problem, in the context here it is being thrown into the equation as a PC comment. Or in other words those who are bigots. Those who are not prepared to listen to informed debate using language to which they are offended by.

If my child had come home with that as homework, I would have gone direct to the head and ask for a reason such work had been handed out to someone living in a Christian society.

If he/she insisted it was in order, I would have assisted my child in writing the homework based on joining the IS, and finishing with something like

"Having been asked by my teacher to look into turning into a Muslim found the idea exercise most attractive and will be joining the IS at the earliest opportunity, and will take as many if my friends as possible with me"

On finding this homework in my child's book, will then take it into the teacher and ask him./her for an explanation.

Thoroughly enjoying making the teacher squirm with embarrassment. I am not islamaphobic in any way I just find some teaching methods far too left wing for my liking.

Trevor Hockey

Res1gned

Let's see, little Johnny will have to give up the family dog as most Muslims think having a dog in the house is dirty, mum and dad will have to give up alcohol as that will offend him, no pork sausages, pork Sunday roast or bacon and that's just for starters. Might have to move the toilet as your buttocks cannot face Mecca. Mum will be a second class citizen and will have to walk two paces behind dad and of course cover up all that bare skin that makes Western women such whores in the opinion of many Muslims.

I think that giving homework like this to impressionable 13 year old children is just plain wrong and anyway don't the kids spend long enough in school.? Abolish homework I say.!

asdfgn

How can you possibly claim to not be islamaphobic when you equate the religion of Islam with the terrorist organisation IS? The fact that you assume becoming a Muslim automatically means you are a terrorist is incomprehensibly ignorant, and just goes to show why children in this island need to learn more about the various religions in the world.

Beanjar

Woolly minded liberal thinking has already done for much of Europe, we don't need to copy their disasters.

markB

Asdfgn - You seem to keep accusing posters of equating Islam to Isis .where does Trevor say anything about them on this whole post.?

markB

asdfgn - are you a Muslim?

Beanjar

I'm guessing this is 'Pontoon' under a different handle. In which case the answer to your question is 'yes' but only 'technically'!

Res1gned

Asdfgn

To be a member if IS you first nee to be a practising Muslim. As far as IS is concerned if you are not a fully practising Muslim you have no right to live

I understand and agree with you that IS is contrary to Islam but like ALL religions you have those that are extremists which take the religion into disrepute

You should apologise for considering I am islamaphobic IS is based on Islam in fact it is at its core. misconstrued maybe but you have to be a Muslim to be a member

bcb

It seems there is some variation on the term islamophobia but if I were to use the term where it says "a fear or dislike of Islam" then I am definitely an islamophope. This silly word islamophobia as far as I'm concerned was only created to high jack debate.

carolfromtheblock

True Religion is lost , (You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination ) , but apparently now you can !!

Douglas White

So is that what it all boils down to? God hates fags? It's a jolly good job that's all just made up mumbo jumbo then isn't it?

GeologyJay

These comments are rubbish .... "woolley minded liberal thinking", "no right to not be offended", "sanity has left the building" etc. Liberalism has nothing to do with it. Respect for other cultures completely does have something to do with it.

It would also not hurt to have some basic knowledge of the history of the British Empire. Britain was a main player in the rise of globalisation, after colonising most of the world and trading practices. Do they think that Britain could be both a global society and an isolated one? Narrow-mindedness, I say (though I doubt it needs saying).

Clearly the notion of a thought experiment is far beyond their capabilities. Or just another reason to spout more rubbish. Like most societies, it is safe to say that the demographic is mixed, and beliefs are even more greatly mixed. But the "our society is Christian" stance is so far off of the mark.

GeologyJay

If I am going to have the word cr*p edited out, can I at least switch it with the "mostly vacuous"? Rubbish has such a dull ring to it.

GeologyJay

and the second rubbish could be switched with the word "piffle".

Beanjar

I think most of us have had a gutfull of this "Respect for other cultures" waffle. We have respected other peoples' cultures for decades, as individuals and as a society enshrined in law. It would be true to say that 'minorities' have been afforded a more respect in Europe than the indigenous populations. One does not need to look far to see the total lack of respect paid to Christians, for example. How much respect do many Muslims have for the countries which have adopted them? Right down to the absurd and barbaric Sharia laws which, in a great many minds, take precedence to the laws of the land. It is quite obscene and no amount of propaganda from apologists like you will remove its stench.

GeologyJay

Have you actually ever lived in a largely muslim area? In Europe? My guess is that you have not, because you'd be largely hard pushed to find Sharia law followers in the UK or Europe. I have worked with a lot of Muslim people in the UK, Europe, and in other countries of North Africa, who have been decent and friendly, intelligent, inclusive, and hard working. What is your exposure? The Sun? The Telegraph? I think that it is fair to say that, with comments like that, it does not sound like you have ever respected anybody's culture other than your own. it's incredible the amount of stench that emanates from ignorant stereotypical racist rant. No offence intended, right?

Beanjar

I am not going to present my CV for you to try and undermine with your bigoted nonsense. If you were at all open minded I would recount my first hand experience with both the victims of extreme religious violence and supporters of it. In Britain, with real Muslims from many walks of life from council workmen to an ambassador via teachers, lawyers etc. But you don't really care so I won't bother.

GeologyJay

Actually, I would care to read your CV. I think you'd find me extremely open minded, and would like to read your point of view in a better light. It would be interesting to understand why you present your thoughts in the way you choose to. I must say though, that following on from reading your comments, it would be a surprise if you could demonstrate that you actually don't have prejudice and stereotypes ingrained in your way of thinking. I, myself, do not tolerate religious violence, or supporters of it. Violence isn't limited to the physical kind, and prejudice is the beginning of it. So please, I really do care.

Beanjar

Now why on earth would I want to put myself up for further insults from such a paragon of virtue that he is utterly without "prejudice and stereotypes". Is that even humanly possible? Perhaps you think you are God?

I have learnt from many years of first hand experiences so, yes, I have formed opinions. People who don't learn from experience are idiots. Because my experience doesn't mesh with your narrow, smug little idealistic view of the world (probably gleaned from the Guardian) you choose to stick your fingers in your ears. Your loss.

bcb

Geologyjay

you say " I, myself, do not tolerate religious violence, or supporters of it."

Pity you weren`t around 1400 yrs ago you could have given ole slasher mohamed a bit of advice.

GeologyJay

BCB

If you're talking about historical violence and religion, then you should also note that most religions have a bloody history. Probably also modern, when thinking of America believing God was on their side in the Middle East, and Israel's violence against Palestine (incl. vice versa), and of course Isis attacking everywhere...at the end of the day, you have to understand the separation between religion, and violence in the name of religion. I am not religious in any sense, but I understand that some people are. I will not enforce my opinion on them, as I would not appreciate the other way around. Therefore, I obviously deplore any other state (or un-reckognised state such as Isis) that seek to spread their "religious" agenda across the world. That does not mean that I tar all religious people with the same brush. Muslim people are also being butchered by these terrorist organisations.

Neither do I want to rant, so I am interested in your response, but I do not wish to get into any unresolved petty arguments for the sake of it, so I'll try to play my part in avoiding it.

bcb

Geologyjay

Historic and also present. I dont know how anyone can claim islam is a religion of peace when the evidence overwhelmingly suggest otherwise while at least the other major religions has on the whole moved with the times.

I dont have an issue at all with Muslims but islam is an ugly dangerous ideology and any criticism of it is often countered with words like "racist" "islamophobia" etc or if your in the wrong country you`d most likely end up without your head.

Jake

"I think most of us have had a gutfull of this "Respect for other cultures" waffle. We have respected other peoples' cultures for decades"

Decades?! Oh in that case have a rest from that challenging respect, decades is far long enough!

Pavotine

All cultures are not equal though are they, Jake?

I am fed up with being told that all cultures are equal when it is not true.

Jake

Even if cultures are not even it does not mean you cannot respect them. I might not like your opinions for example but that does not mean I don't respect them.

Pavotine

For some reason I cannot reply to your comment, Jake so I've had to reply to my previous comment to get it up.

Are you telling me I should have respect for cultures (and I don't just refer to Islam here) that practice open persecution of homosexuals, treat women as second class citizens or worse, keep and slaughter animals with no regard to welfare, think it is acceptable to beat dogs severely before slaughter because they say the meat tastes better, cultures that kill and eat others as part of their culture, see suicide as an honourable way to cleanse themselves of sins against others, the cultures that value family "honour" and murder their own to keep this "honour", the cultures that believe in blood feuds going on and killing for generations. You think we should respect cultures that think an appropriate reason to kill rhinos or tigers to use their parts as useless medicines?

You seem blinded by your belief that all cultures are equally meritorious or should at least be respected simply because their despicable behaviour is "cultural?"

If even 51% of a culture accepts any of these things then no, I do not respect their culture.

Some of the things I list above are indeed supported by the majority of their cultural members and no, I cannot respect them. Just as there are absolute right ways, there are also absolutely wrong ways.

They deserve no respect just because they are different. Wrong is wrong.

Jake

I guess it comes down to your definition of culture. Dictionary definition is:

"the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively."

I wouldn't say that most of what you have listed would be under the category of culture in my definition anyway. Not trying to split hairs here just clarifying what I meant by my previous comment. Culture to me is art, fashions, culture dishes, dances, the building blocks of a society that forms the social consciousness with a fine line between it and politics. Culture is fine to be preserved as malicious intent, to me, is defined outside of culture.

None of what you mentioned above I would agree with, by which I mean anyone that does any of the above is condemnable but I wouldn't subscribe to the 51% mentality. I know everybody always references Nazi Germany but it works well to help explain what I am trying to say. If you had a room full of 100 Nazis all looking to wipe out every Jew in the world and one of them stands up and says no, would that person get your respect? He would definitely get mine so that would mean I don't care what percentage of a group practice whatever, I respect people as individuals. But what if you came into the room after or left before he said that, he would have been labelled the same as everyone else in the room but he wouldn't have been a different person.

We categorise people far too much into groups and then attach labels to that group which to me is madness which seems to be due to lack of information on the individuals. Obviously we cannot know everything about every individual so we presumptions about them. How we differ is if we like to have that presumption as something negative or positive. Unfortunately some take it a step too far and when dealing with an individual use the collective presumption on that singular person and there you have a problem.

So I respect their culture in my meaning of culture and when it comes to the things you have listed, I judge each person individually on their actions.

Trevor Hockey

Where are all the women's rights people nowadays.? We have half the world treating women as second class citizens, some are still technically children when married off, we have female genital mutilation and yet we hear so little from those who burnt their bras years ago.

Rokayne

Trevor - you have a point. When I sponsor a child I always insist it's a girl because I believe education leads to emancipation. One of the most important words a woman can learn to know is "no" - and a phrase "enough is enough". Until she knows she's not a bad person for taking this approach she will be a victim - she will equally breed victims and their oppressors, most probably unaware that's what she's doing. It's all down to education - and if you've seen my posts in that thread don't get me started!

Jake

I have seen a lot of action against FGM in the UK in the last few years. Also by some right wing groups in the UK which are making out that it is an Islamic tradition! Some people just make stuff up for Muslim bashing.

Beanjar

Who is doing it then, not those pesky Quakers is it?

Jake

Mostly EDL, Britain first etc.

Beanjar

You really are deluded, you play right into the hands of the fanatics. I suppose the fact that Muslims hate homosexuality is all made up too? Probably invented by the Daily Mail or the BNP, is it?

Jake

Only as much as Christianity.

As for playing into the hands of the fanatics. Are you aware that the fanatics are trying to make us hate Islam not like it?

Beanjar

Try again, Jake The Liar, I haven't got a clue what that means.

Jake

Where did I lose you Beanjar? And what did I lie about?

Beanjar

You tell so many lies you can't remember which was which? Incredible. Like everything else you say, literally.

Jake

Looks like you cannot remember either Beanjar, maybe because it didn't happen. If you cannot tell me you are doing nothing more than trolling.

Terry Langlois

I wouldn't bother Jake. He accused me of lying and exaggerating for quoting the total % figure of muslims in the UK, as taken from the UK 2011 census and for pointing out that some British muslims are moderate (which he later admitted was the case).

He then managed to presumably keep a straight face while posting that Bangladesh-style executions for offending the prophet would be "coming soon to a town near you". But of course that isn't a lie or an exaggeration as Beanjar said it, so it must be true.

Elegy

I’m afraid I can’t get into the mindset of a thirteen year old but here’s my go at the homework.

Dear Mum and Dad,

This has been a very difficult letter to write so please bear with me.

You’ve always brought me up to know right from wrong and taught me to be a good person. You have accepted me for who I am and have given me unconditional love, even if you haven’t liked some of my actions at times.

I guess like most people we’ve never gone to church much except for family events and the odd school carol service but you’ve always taught me to keep an open mind regarding religion and to appreciate the good people in our lives. I’ve looked at most religions and all have their good and bad points and equally good and bad people who purport to represent their faith. I believe that all religions originate from God, however you define that word, but that most have drifted away from their original message or been misinterpreted.

The Dalia Lama recommends that we should first explore the religion of our own society but there is little in Christianity to recommend itself to me except for possibly the Quaker viewpoint. This is not to say that I do not know some good people who are Christians of various denominations but they are flowers amongst weeds as far as their different organisations are concerned. I want to worship God and not someone who we are now told is the only way to God and a sort of God himself. There is only one God and it is not the prophet Jesus or any other prophet, no matter how wise and worthy of respect they might be.

I want a personal religion that is between me and my God and I think I have found it in Islam.

Now, before you go off the deep end, ask yourself what you really know about Muslims and Islam outside of what the media feeds us. Newspapers stopped delivering unbiased news years ago and (as has been proved in the UK courts) they’ll now say and do anything to sell more papers. Unfortunately most of the UK media is controlled by a powerful ex-Australian (with his own agenda) who also has a lot of politicians in his sphere of influence. Over half the Tory cabinet attended his last Christmas bash in London so what does that say about their being unbiased?

In short Islam receives a bad press, mainly centred around people like IS and Saudi Arabia who purport to be Muslim but are rabid fundamentalists using the religion for personal and political gains, much like the so called Catholics and Protestants in the Irish troubles. Much of Islam is made up of peaceful individuals like you and me who just want to be better people and live peaceful lives, doing good for their families and their society (community is very important to Muslims). But that sort of thing doesn’t sell newspapers or rile people up, so we don’t get to hear about it.

There is also a lot of cultural baggage caught up in the interpretation of Islam but little instructed by the Qu’ran itself, and most of that was aimed at the society of the time when it was written.

Being a Muslim will change me but I hope for the better. I will try and pray five times a day, but that will be in private (except when I can find a mosque for Friday prayers), and I hope this regime will bring me closer to God and keep me mindful of setting a good example to my society. I will stop eating pork, which will be a test of discipline (Yes, I still love bacon!) and stop drinking alcohol which will stop me from getting drunk and making stupid decisions. I will dress modestly as I’ve always done and I won’t try and ram my new religion down anyone’s throat. Islam, despite what it’s critics say, is a religion of peace and justice, and I’m content to leave judgement to God. Salvation is a personal thing and it’s not up to me to tell people what to do. If your God needs your help to get things done then he’s not much of a God is he/she/it?

Like every religion, Islam has various different branches and the one I am joining is liberal in outlook and modern in its interpretation of the Qu’ran. Again, you will not have heard of it because it doesn’t fit the stereotypes being sold to us by those who want a big bad enemy to fight to boost their own popularity and power.

The Qu’ran does contain everything we need but it was written for an ancient Arab society and cannot continue to be interpreted literally. That’s why God gave us intelligence and told us to use it.

Islam makes me responsible for my own actions and God will judge me on the Final Day and that is the only judgement which really matters. However, I do hope that you will see positive changes in me and my life and will, in time, look kindly on my decision.

You’ve always taught me to judge a person by their actions rather than their words and I hope that my future actions will convince you of the worth of my decision as opposed to the poor words of this letter. I will always be thankful that I’ve become the person you have made me and hope that I will make you proud of the person I hope to become.

Your loving son

Hopefully next week’s homework will be a letter explaining why I could never become a Muslim.

Beanjar

Pass the sick bag.

GeologyJay

Your response speaks volumes. If you don't like your opinion being criticised, don't shout it so loudly.

Beanjar

Call that criticism? Regurgitating the same old "All religions are equally bad", ''Only a tiny minority of Muslims that are intolerant" DRIVEL that you have been force fed yourself? Find out what you are talking about before trotting out more lazy cliches, I'm not here to educate you.

GeologyJay

I doubt you have much to teach...you can't even defend your viewpoint without resorting to "drivelling" and name calling. You haven't said anything of value really, have you? If anything, you're the lazy cliche. I wouldn't usually keep on commenting on a thread for so long, but pestering racists is turning out to be too tempting.

Beanjar

I have, but you are way too dim to learn, so I won't waste my time.

GeologyJay

Weak , try again! :)

Countonme

I am disgusted by homework - will they be showing pupils how to kill animals for halal meat in biology lessons next- all this talk about Muslims and Islamaphobia is exhausting - bottom line is they live by different laws to the western world and cannot be integrated unless they convert to our way of life- no multiple or child marriages or female genital mutilation or burkas- the Muslims here in guernsey live our way of life and are very welcome - there are no mosques making loads of noise calling them to prayers, no halal meat in our supermarkets and I don't think I would know one if I saw one and this is how it should be- not mass invasion and no go areas for non- Muslims. Why can't the squatters in Calais be educated that the uk is not paved with gold and they should stay in camps nearer their homelands - also why can't they pick up their rubbish and how come so many of them can afford to smoke?

Jake

"bottom line is they live by different laws to the western world and cannot be integrated unless they convert to our way of life"

Hopefully they can keep some of their better traditions such as not getting hammered on a Saturday night, starting fights and vomiting in the streets. I would definitely trade that one.

"no multiple or child marriages"

What is your opinion of Mormons who more frequently than Muslims practice multiple marriages. Child brides is a silly statement as well, it does happen in some countries, rarely. It is still illegal even in these countries and quite a lot of Muslim countries have higher ages of consent than Guernsey does! The UK can hardly hold it's head up about paedophilia at the moment but like I always say, judge people on what they have done. Child marriages are not the 'religious right' in Islam that I have seen it described as. People often say that Mohammed married a 9 year old girl so... My response to that is that I can see see from both sides.

On the one hand: It was 700 AD and back then it wasn't uncommon for a girl to be judged as a woman once she starts her period. There were many many marriages under these circumstances throughout that age in Islam and outside of Islam and centuries before and after. Even in the bible studies have shown that Mary was 14 and Joseph was 90 which by today's standards would still have been wrong.

On the other hand: It was a 9 year old girl, that's creepy!

"female genital mutilation"

You really blaming that on Islam? That is an African problem and anyone that has looked into it even for a second will know that it happens as much in Christian communities as Muslim communities. Sorry but you really cannot blame that one on Islam without it making everyone else you have put seem half baked.

"burkas"

This is only regional and in a very small minority. Obviously it's been hyped up by the media but in all honestly, what is the problem with someone wanting to wear a burqa? How does that harm you in any way? Most people say it is a security risk but is it, really? If you could see their face does that mean you would know if they pose a security risk or not?

"no halal meat in our supermarkets"

You can get halal meat over here but it is tricky as we have a very low Muslim population. If the Muslim population was to get larger then there would be a higher demand. I do find it strange that people that call for a ban on halal meat do not mention kosher meat which is practically the exact same thing.

"and I don't think I would know one if I saw one and this is how it should be"

.... I'm hoping you didn't mean how this sounded!

"Why can't the squatters in Calais be educated that the uk is not paved with gold and they should stay in camps nearer their homelands"

If you mean refugees in general the vast majority are around Syria in camps or taken in by neighbouring countries. If you mean the refugees in Calais, they are already in Calais so your sentence contradicts itself.

"also why can't they pick up their rubbish and how come so many of them can afford to smoke?"

Cigarettes in Syria are very very cheap as they don't have the duty lumped on them that we do. Although to be honest I haven't seen any photographs or anything that says that a lot of them do smoke. Picking your rubbish up is only productive if you have somewhere to put the rubbish after you pick it up. Imagine a festival camp site, apart from with less bins. Also imagine that what is rubbish to us might not be rubbish to them. When we drink a can of soft drink for example, we treat the can as rubbish. If we were living in those conditions we might see it as a cup that we could store water in.

These are meant as constructive points and I am aware I come across as argumentative a lot of time, it is something I am working on! Apologies if you take anything as an attack on your beliefs, it is all meant as something to think on, exchange of points of view if you will.

bcb

Jake in regard Mohammed and his 9yr old bride i see only one difference between these child molesting perverts and the equivalent of todays child molesters and thats the laws we now have against it. I realise things were different back then and many things that were acceptable are now not but i will never believe that these filthy monsters were nothing more than our modern day peopdphiles.

Jake

I don't disagree. The only thing that gives me pause is if the age of consent was say 30 and as a society we felt that was correct. If someone then slept with a 25 year old, would we be calling them a monster? I'm not sure to what extent societies norms affect us psychologically.

bcb

Jake was it really one of societies norms? or were there other reasons it was accepted? and was it really accepted and by who? can it ever be justified? i say absolutely not.

What about the stoning of women, the beheadings in public and the heaps of other things that go on? the people who carry out and the supporters of these barbaric atrocities think it is the "norm" and is accepted by "them" and even encouraged in the name of islam (thankfully most muslims have enough morals to not follow many of the teachings). These things are happening today not 1400yrs ago and these people are just as barbaric now as they were back then.

I wonder if all those children thought it was the "norm" or was it just the perverts and their supporters that thought that way? i`m fairly sure i know the answer.

Earl Granville

I think you will find that most of the meat you buy will effectively be halal as the supermarkets and supply chains have found it easier to accommodate those who prefer their food ritually tortured before death than comply with the majority who aren't that much in favour of vivisection. Certainly all New Zealand lamb comes that way. Your only way of avoiding this with any degree of certainty would be to buy pork. You could ask the store manager to supply you with guaranteed non halal meat but I would imagine you would be in the wrong for asking such a question or you could try rabbit or dogs that have tested cigarettes or fragrances if you want to go the extra mile after enjoying your halal lamb chops

guern abroad

Halal meat making it into the supply chain caused a massive stir and shake up of labeling. Meat in the UK has to be marked if it is halal, who is so arrogant that an animal has to be tortured in death before it can be eaten whatever the name given to the meat it is appalling.

Beanjar

Is there anybody in the whole of Guernsey daft enough to believe they could run this exercise anywhere in the UK with a significant Muslim population? Obviously, with the conversion being to Judaism or Christianity, say?

They would never dare. If they did there would be riots, violence, a fatwa on the teachers involved. More blood in the streets. Is that the freedom, tolerance and equality we supposedly enjoy in Europe? Make no mistake, we are already on the slippery slope back to dark ages.

Jake

They do. The UK RE curriculum mostly teaches about Christianity and schools in the UK with high Muslim student base teach the same curriculum without problem and with less of a problem than we have had with this in Guernsey.

The fact that you don't think it happens just proves how much of a problem it isn't but your assumption that it would be a problem speaks volumes.

Beanjar

Sorry, Jake, I simply do not believe you. I don't even think most Muslim students would be in the same classroom if they were discussing other religions, let alone "Dear Mum & Dad, I'm an apostate please don't stone me". But I will if you can tell us which schools and the exact nature of the exercise etc. Since you are so certain, that won't be a problem, will it?

Jake

I have to admit it is tricky finding this information. I have read about it somewhere but I think it was in a magazine. With Muslims making up only 2.7% of the British population it is difficult to find public schools that are predominately Muslim (I'm discounting faith schools as they are always biased on either side of the fence). Also if they aren't moaning about it then no one is going to report on it.

If you consider that the British RE education is a standard set of topics that all schools have to comply with and that this curriculum definitely teaches about Christianity you can be certain that Muslim children are being taught Christianity in RE in schools in the UK.

I have however found this about the Association of Muslim Schools wanting to include more studying into Judaism into their studies (I believe these are schools which fit into the faith school category):

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/UK-Muslim-schools-may-institute-Jewish-studies-438408

There are a lot of stories about 'British Christians' (seems anyone that wants to shove Muslims out of the UK all claim to be Christians even if they weren't before) complaining a lot about Islam being taught at all though, that seems to make up the vast majority of stories on the issue.

On a side note, your letter could continue (to be more factually accurate) with

"Dear Mum & Dad, I'm an apostate please don't stone me as has happened to 5 people between 1985 and 2005 but as neither of you are part of an extremist movement I doubt you would."

Beanjar

Funny how you have plenty of time to post your nonsense elsewhere but can't substantiate the 'fact' you reported above. Just admit that you made it up and we can move on.

Jake

Substantiate this:

"They would never dare. If they did there would be riots, violence, a fatwa on the teachers involved. More blood in the streets."

Beanjar

Come on Jake, this is your chance to say 'I misunderstood', 'I made a mistake' etc. Or to grow a set and just admit that you lied.

My projection of probable consequences is entirely consistent with what has happened many, many times in the past. Right back to the fatwa they put on Salman Rushdie in 1989 Up to the recent Charlie Hebdo massacres. Consistent with Sharia Laws which all Muslims adhere to, to a varying extent. As well you know, unless you are as dim as you make yourself appear.

Jake

Ahhh, you are talking about Al-Qaeda, ISIS, ISIL etc. The extremist terrorist factions that would be angry. I thought you meant the general population of Muslims in the UK.

Yes the extremist factions would probably be angry but aren't they always! Also I don't think we should bow down to their demands out of fear of reprisal (not saying you thought we should).

Beanjar

Jake The Liar, so you now agree that no such school work was ever set to Muslim pupils do you? (Like your new handle?)

LeftoutGuern

"Jake

February 24, 2016 12:49 pm

Ahhh, you are talking about Al-Qaeda, ISIS, ISIL etc. The extremist terrorist factions that would be angry. I thought you meant the general population of Muslims in the UK.

Yes the extremist factions would probably be angry but aren't they always! Also I don't think we should bow down to their demands out of fear of reprisal (not saying you thought we should)."

"Protests against the cartoons were held around the world in late January and February 2006.[53][54] Many of these turned violent, resulting in at least 200 deaths globally, according to the New York Times.[55] Large demonstrations were held in many majority-Muslim countries, and almost every country with significant Muslim minorities, including Nigeria,[56] Canada,[57] India,[58] the United States,[58] the United Kingdom (see: 2006 Islamist demonstration outside the Embassy of Denmark in London),[56] Australia,[59] New Zealand,[60] Kenya,[61] and throughout continental Europe.[62] In many instances, demonstrations against the cartoons became intertwined with those about other local political grievances.[63] Muslims in the north of Nigeria used protests to attack local Christians as part of an ongoing battle for influence, radical Sunnis used protests against governments in the Middle East, and authoritarian governments used them to bolster their religious and nationalist credentials in internal disputes; these associated political motives explain the intensity of some of the demonstrations.[63]

Several Western embassies were attacked;[64] the Danish and Austrian embassies in Lebanon and the Norwegian and Danish representations in Syria were severely damaged.[65] Christians and Christian churches were also targets of violent retribution in some places.[66] Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State of the United States, accused Iran and Syria of organising many of the protests in Iran, Syria and Lebanon.[67] However, Hezbollah, ally of Syria and Iran in Lebanon, has condemned the attack on the Danish Embassy.[68] Several death threats were made against the cartoonists and the newspaper,[69] resulting in the cartoonists going into hiding.[70] Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen called it Denmark's worst international relations incident since the Second World War.[71]

Peaceful counter-demonstrations in support of the cartoons, Denmark, and freedom of speech were also held.[72] Three national ministers lost their jobs amid the controversy: Roberto Calderoli in Italy for his support of the cartoons, Laila Freivalds in Sweden for her role in shutting down a website displaying the cartoons,[73] and the Libyan Interior Minister after a riot in Benghazi in response to Calderolli's comments, which led to the deaths of at least 10 people.[74] In India, Haji Yaqoob Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, announced a cash reward for anyone who beheaded "the Danish cartoonist" who caricatured Mohammad. Subsequently, a case was filed against him in the Lucknow district court and eminent Muslim scholars in New Delhi demanded his dismissal.[75] As of 2011, legal action was ongoing.[76]"

Not one mention of Al-Qaeda, ISIS, ISIL. These were you average day to day Muslims angered by a cartoon, how many jokes have there been about catholic priests and young boys, Jews and how the squeak when they walk, yet not once do you hear them spout violence and death towards the the people that say these things.

While the school might defend the article, you also have to look at what is going on around the world and what is going on within the Island and ask was the timing appropriate for this homework, could it of been worded different, I went to catholic school and we had to write essays on other religions so I think it is important to learn about them, I just think it was bad timing.

Beanjar

Oh great, Guernsey is back in the national news again. As always, for all the WRONG reasons.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3459499/Dear-Mum-m-going-Muslim-Anger-pupils-project-asked-write-letter-parents-explaining-converting-Islam.html

PLP

I noticed it was "trending" on my Facebook feed! Guernsey is certainly doing well at attracting attention these days. Saves on the Visit Guernsey advertising budget I suppose.

Election Issues

Gsy has just been involved in the media storm after the CM's remarks that Gsy could not take in any of the Syrian refugees flooding Europe due to 'Islamophobia' and now this.

Some news sites have even named the school with the full address, international telephone number and website, the teacher, the Headteacher, The Head or RE. Also the address of the Education Department with the names of Board members and they have been actively encouraging people to contact them to voice their concern/outrage. Shocking.

LocalAl

Blimey! Whether you agree / disagree with this homework assignment you have to agree this sort of publicity for Guernsey is NOT good. Yet another nail in our tourism industry.

Candy

Is it me, or should the media be hanging their collective heads in shame?

This was never a story in the first place.

A parent complained, contacted the school, had context explained and was satisfied according to the final sentence in the article on this site.

Meanwhile media pick it up on social media and then fuel it with coverage.

National media pick it up, or even fed by local media.

If election issues are right with their post at 11.52am then I would expect an apology from the guernsey press, BBC, island fm and channel tv to the head and teacher. Of course that will never and expect this post to be blocked.

Does our local media have no standards and sense of responsibility?

Beanjar

No, its pretty much just you . This is outrageous and potentially very dangerous.

res ipsa loquitur

Candy

I couldn’t agree more, this is just a non story. Of course the moment you discuss religions of any kind all sorts of temperaments are brought into life.

I guess it makes sense to make our children aware that nearly all the worlds populations live their lives according to what they are taught and told to do and consequently believe all sorts of nonsense in the hope that it the ‘right’ thing to do.

I also hope that schools encourage questioning and analysis and common sense and hopefully this will lead them away from any kind of blind belief and an appreciation that the simple mantra of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you is more than sufficient.

The whole concept of a God of any kind is nonsensical and unnecessary and was invented to explain the things in life that where not understood but then led to rivalry and thousands of years of persecution between people and continues to this day.

Ditch a belief in God, ditch religion, use your inbuilt sense of right and wrong without needing to justify your actions through an invented God and get on with people and look to how science can understand our place in the universe and ourselves.

A belief in a God can at best be benign and comforting and that’s fine because the world and human existence is a difficult thing to understand. However, at worst it is cruel, divisive and utterly destructive and self-serving. We just don’t need it!

Cher Eugene

res ipsa loquitor

As far as I am concerned you are correctly named, the rubbish you spout speaks for itself.

Your reference to " your inbuilt sense of right and wrong" begs the question - by what standard or yardstick do you measure right and wrong? The strict follower of Islam, by reference to the Koran believes that killing Kaffirs is right; no other religion agrees with this view. National Socialist Nazis substitute Jews for Kaffirs. Islam probably agrees, no other religion does.

The Western world's views of right and wrong have been shaped over the centuries by Christianity and its instruction to love your neighbour as yourself. Whether you like it or not your views of right and wrong have been instilled in you by Christianity not dreamt up unaided by your brain.

res ipsa loquitur

Utter tosh Cher Eugene, if you don't instinctively know the difference without having to be told what is right and wrong then you exemplify the problem.

I agree some views have been shaped by christianity, I think the record speaks for itself if that has been a positive thing or not. I wonder how people managed to decide right and wrong for the millennia before Christianity or any of the other religious concepts, perhaps they were all just barbaric? I doubt it.

The solution is to use a bit of common sense when thinking about these issues and perhaps even you might be able to come to the conclusion that all forms of 'belief' end up in conflict.

Rokayne

Res - if you were educated you'd say that in your view religion is non-sensical. Unfortunately you state it as a fact. Many of us who believe just do that - we believe, we don't look to science and evidence because it isn't there. We aren't so stupid to think our belief is proveable, its something beyond that which is where we believe our God is.

The way you phrase your belief (because you have no proof, either, that God doesn't exist) is highly offensive - and as I say, in my opinion, ignorant

Sunflower

Candy

Well said.

Torteval voice of reason

Whilst writing an Essay about Islam or any other faith would be a valid homework, suggesting the pupil should imagine they are converting to it is yet another liberal weird beard nonsense - no wonder the public are understandably very afraid of letting teachers loose on designing their own Education System - which would no doubt be filled with such meaningless drivel in place of an actual education that might prove to be useful in the real world.

If this is typical of an education in 2015 in our State Schools it is no wonder the private colleges are not exactly bereft of parents keen to send their little Tarquin's and Cressida's there to get a meaningful education even if it costs them at least five Chelsea Tractors in fees to do so .

Election Issues

On Schools Improvement schoolsimprovement.net site:

The 'Mirror' is reporting that a school has sparked controversy by asking pupils to write to their parents stating they had converted to Islam - and explaining how it changed their life for the better.

1 Comment:

"I wouldn't be happy giving this task to a child or receiving it for a child to do. Completely inappropriate.

There are national guidelines for local SACRE's which they follow to produce a locally agreed syllabus. The purpose is to teach about different religions so all children understand fundamental beliefs and tenants.

The issue of conversion is not one that is touched on for the obvious reason that it can be misconstrued or even used as propaganda for a particular religion or non-religious world view.

Conversion is a personal spiritual choice but not something to be promoted or denounced. The school has broken its statutory duty to its children by pushing them to consider the benefits of converting to Islam. That is overstepping the mark completely".

So what exactly does the Guernsey agreed syllabus follow and is it completely different to UK guidelines???

This is exactly what worries me about the '4 schools 1 site' comprehensive education system 'Guernsey style' that Education are determined to push through. It is the 'Guernsey style' part that is the most worrying element!

The Voice

I see we've hit the national papers again. Check out the Mail on Line.

I could weep for Guernsey. How did such left wing looney policies ever become the norm over here.

What is wrong with some people ?

Jake

I hear a lot of people say 'libtard', 'left wing looney' etc. Can you actually state what you think the objectives and beliefs are of the left wing, right wing and middle of road regarding Islam? Also which one you would consider yourself to be. I'll start:

Left wing: Ignores problems in the world because they blind themselves into only looking at the best of everyone. Cannot admit that there are bad Muslims and that Islam does have it's problems.

Middle of the road: Admits there are problems in the world but does not judge everyone by them. Those that do harm should be punished, those that do no harm shouldn't be punished. Does not see every Muslim as bad but can admit that there are Muslims that are. The world isn't perfect but it can be made better through reason, education and understanding.

Right wing: Every Muslim is bad and they should all be deported out of our country. We should close up the borders and look after only ourselves and do not care if there are people that suffer in other countries.

I consider myself to be middle of the road and can argue either side of it. The problem with debates on this issue though is when someone takes a stance either side, the argument against it often comes out as the polar opposite because the argument against is in direct contradiction to the original statement. This gets us no where!

If we cannot admit there are problems in the world then we have lost but likewise if we blame those that have done no harm we have also lost.

So in response to your statement that learning about another religion is a "left wing looney policy", how exactly is it a left wing looney policy? Given that this is a single piece of homework and not the entire curriculum rolled into one. The homework actually takes no stance of opinion and simply asks what it would be like.

Note that the GP stated that the homework said "how becoming Muslim had changed their life for the better" but this is NOT what the homework actually said. The homework merely asked how your life would change and did not state if it would be for the better or worse.

Beanjar

Jake The Liar, you are not 'middle of the road', you are definitely left wing and an apologist for all things contrary to the traditional Guernsey way of life. Many people are, as is their democratic right.

But not many others invent 'facts' in order to wrongly slap the xenophobe / racist / islamophobe tag onto other posters who are their neighbours on this little island. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Jake

I support everything that is contrary to the Guernsey way of life? So I support murder, rape, beatings etc? You don't know me at all!

What did I invent? Calling me a liar doesn't make it so and who did I label as xenophobe / racist / islamophobe?

It's ironic that the person telling me things about myself contrary to who I am is accusing me of wrongly slapping labels on people despite the fact (yes fact) that I hate labels as there is no black and white. I do find you generally very aggressive though and, again ironically, very happy to slap labels on people in order to try and discredit their voice into the arena. Oppressive would be the word I would use to describe you (not label you, different).

Jake

Further more I have never defended anyone that has committed any kind of hardship on others. How dare you say that I support the wrong in the world! My focus is to reduce it and I have never once encouraged anyone to harm anyone else for any reason.

I didn't think you could sink further down in my opinion of you but congratulations, looks like you succeeded.

Trevor Hockey

The Voice

Roll on April, no left wing socialist twerp will get my vote.!

Beanjar

Beanjar, February 22, 2016 10:08 pm:

Is there anybody in the whole of Guernsey daft enough to believe they could run this exercise anywhere in the UK with a significant Muslim population? Obviously, with the conversion being to Judaism or Christianity, say?

Jake, February 23, 2016 5:04 pm:

They do.

No they don't. Now do you understand?

Unless you can supply details about even one of these schools where "They do", or apologise, I will not be wasting any more of my time on you.

Terry Langlois

Beanjar the Troll - Jake provided a full and (in the circumstances given your usual aggressive provocations) a considered and conciliatory explanation of the point that he was making.

Be a man and discuss the issues like an adult.

Beanjar

No, there is no explanation, he is simply a liar. And if he was 'a man' (bit sexist, no?) he would just apologise for telling a barefaced lie. Nor would he need any little mates to try and shout me down like a bunch of pathetic playground bullies.

Terry Langlois

Who's shouting at you??! Bullies are never very good at being on the receiving end (however gentle it is in comparison) - as you are proving. Good night.

Jake

I've given you all you need and am not going to entertain you any longer. You obviously get your jollies from annoying people so won't be responding anymore.

futulas_dog

The question I find myself asking is, why, regarding the somewhat unusual 'homework assignment'.

50 years ago, before we were all positively drowning in news of Muslims, radical Muslims, Jihads, suicide bombers, child terrorists, sex slaves and such, this homework assignment would have been considered so out of left field, it would have been left there, with all the other religions that, as R.E. SURELY must teach (?), are, on balance, equally valid and important.

As it is, the focus was on this particular faith, that has, regretfully, radicalised a lot of young and impressionable minds like no other religion I can think of, and in the most appalling way (thinking 4 years olds blowing up 'spies' in cars, etc).

So. Are we all just over reacting? Being swayed by the media?

The likes of OK Jakey think we're all being a bunch of narrow minded typical Guerns, it seems, and his right-on approach to pretty much anything and everything on these boards that otherwise grinds the 'typical Guerns' gears has become pretty well known, I think, and though it's not often I agree with Bean Jar, I would have to say, that in this case, it is liberal bouvaing at it's worst.

Live and let live would surely be a mantra we would all like to live by, Jakey my boy, but regretfully, the religion we are talking about here comprises some of the strictest rules of any religion, and, whether you like it or not, the 'silent majority' of 'peace loving Muslims', are, as I have said before, just like the peace loving people of Germany, who quietly and innocently went about their daily business whilst the SS and various other organisations within their own very loudly murdered it's way across Europe.

I don't believe in any religion myself. Tried it, doesn't work for me, but it doesn't mean I think others shouldn't have a belief system that makes them feel better, if that's what they want to do.

The difference is, with THIS religion, there simply IS a BIG difference, and to choose this as a subject matter for young and malleable minds, at a time where the world is in uproar, much of it stemming from people within that religion, is, whether you like it or not, inappropriate, UTTERLY pointless, poorly timed and entirely out of order.

For all the comments on here, only ONE parent complained, Jakey, according to the reports, ONE.

THAT is how 'narrow minded' the populace over here are.

Now, you want to test the waters of the liberal world of Islam…..?

May I suggest you try going to a heavily Muslim populated part of the UK, and get all the Muslim kids there to write a piece on why they've converted to CHRISTIANITY, and see what sort of reaction you get from THEIR parents.

Good luck with that.

Tancred

The school's R.E. department webpage even contains a single photograph of a large mosque. It has an obvious and misguided bent towards Islam which needs to be investigated as a matter of urgency, as does the Education Department for defending the indefensible.